I know that the instant I saved this entry as a draft and it showed up as a pencil on the Entries page it was probably red-flagged by half a dozen people. Their brains probably went "NOOOO! Snively's going to bring the wrath of higher-ups raining down on the admissions office again! He doesn't possess the self-control to write honestly about a sensitive subject without stepping half the Institvte's toes!"
Here's the deal. I'm going to be honest. BUT, I'm also going to try really hard to not make everybody mad at me. If, while reading this, you find yourself
a) Upset
b) Scared about repercussions
c) A member of the MIT faculty
d) Tempted to e-mail Matt McGann and complain
I urge you instead to just e-mail me at snively [at] mit [dot] edu and we'll discuss content and I'll go ahead and make changes as needed.
Ok, so, now onto content. For the last week, fraternities have been actively recruiting new pledges during "Rush," a chance for new freshmen guys to get a chance to meet as many fraternity members as possible and decide whether or not they'd like to live in a fraternity. It's also a wonderful excuse to go paintballing, F1 racing, eat the obligatory steak and lobster, and throw golf balls attached to some string at a horizontal piece of PVC.
At the end of Rush the fraternities make bids and invite freshmen to join their fraternities. The statistics say that 50% of freshmen guys are members of fraternities. The statistics don't say that nearly every freshmen male participates in Rush. This is totally expected. In fact, if you don't do any Rush as a freshman then YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! But, when all of the guys Rush and only approximately 50% get bids (maybe a bit more, accounting for multiple bids to the same person and people refusing bids), you're left with maybe a little less than 50% who don't get bids. These are the ones you don't often hear about. What happens to them?
@Anonymous
Paul's actually not the one to talk about this, because Paul did get a bid and consequently did join a fraternity.
@mom'13, who asked
Hi Snively, unrelated question, but wanted to know a bit about fraternities...how many boys choose not to join one and what do they miss out on. How many get rejected by fraternities and what happens then?
There are couple of things I want to touch on when answering your question. The first is that it's really frustrating when people tell you to "visit as many fraternities as possible in order to really figure out which one is for you." Here's the deal, every time you walk into a fraternity you sign a piece of paper. I can only guess what happens to those lists of names, but I'm pretty sure that you're a bit more likely to get a bid if you appear on one list 20 times as opposed to 20 lists one time. The amount of time you have to spend with a single fraternity in order to get a bid is almost prohibitive, eliminating time you could be spending with other fraternities. In my experience I found that people found a fraternity on the first day or two of Rush and then just stuck with them the whole time, the people who got bids at least. There are exceptions, of course, but people who "Did Rush right" and visited a bunch of fraternities didn't get nearly as many bids as those who practically lived at a particular fraternity. A flawed system, but unfortunately, one that doesn't really have a good solution.
I spent all of my time at a particular fraternity in hopes of securing a bid. Paintball, six flags, food, I was there. One day a bunch of my friends all got calls inviting them to a steak and lobster dinner. I realized that this fraternity didn't have my number. Since I had been there just as often as many of the people who had received calls, I figured they just couldn't get a hold of me so I showed up to the dinner anyway. To this fraternity's credit, they did a very good job not caring that I was there, even though I was probably the only one who didn't end up getting a bid.
That's right, I spent 2 weeks with this fraternity, doing most everything with them, and then bid day came and nothing happened. Well, not nothing. My friend received a call and an invite to the fraternity. We were both pretty certain this was a bid, so I tagged along since they STILL didn't have my phone number, I figured at the very least I'd just sit there while he did whatever and got his bid and one of two things would happen:
1) I would get a bid as well
2) I'd sit there, he'd come out, and we'd leave, me sans-bid
Neither of these happened. Instead, I was taken into a room and specifically told that I would not be receiving a bid. The subtlety was over now. There was no more miscommunication or confusion. I had placed all of my fraternity eggs in one big basket which had been crushed as I sat in a dark and air-conditioned room with a brother from the fraternity.
That was it, Rush was over. I would not be moving into a fraternity. I wouldn't be one of those people who "met their true family" or "all of a sudden felt included." This bugged me, a lot. Another friend who had visited about three times DID get a bid and I just couldn't figure it out. I've heard things now about why I didn't receive a bid, which make a fair amount of sense, but are also the result of a flawed Rush system.
So, what happened? I Rush, am rejected, and am no longer welcomed with open arms by the Greek community because, to be honest, after Rush they really don't beg for you to come in and visit them.
You
Do
Not
Need
To
Live
In
A
Fraternity
To
Feel
Like
You
Belong.
I live on Conner 2, English House, and love my floor more than any fraternity I could have pledged. Jared is standing here dual-wielding lightsabers, Sara is threatening him with a Nerf gun, Jordan's teaching nun-chuck technique, a large inflatable penguin is wearing a race for the cure shirt, a life-sized paper zombie graces the wall across from me, and soon I'll go to bed in my awesomely painted room. Looking back I realize that I would have regretted joining any fraternity. There's just so much I would have missed out on Conner 2. Many people wouldn't trade fraternity life for anything. I wouldn't take it for a million dollars.
You will always hear people say how much they love their fraternities. You will always hear people say that the companionship is all they ever wanted. You will always hear about people losing their pledge pins and using its deep-rooted tradition as an excuse to spam all the dorm e-mail lists in hopes of getting it back. You will always see Rush shirts, rooftop parties, and Rush girls. You will always hear people boast proudly about their brothers.
I don't have brothers. I don't have a house. I don't have rush girls. I don't have Greek letters on my shirts. I don't do house chores.
I have friends. I have my floor. I build water war weapons. I have sporks on my shirts. I chip in to buy our cleaning lady, Rosa, chocolate every couple of months.
Rejected from a fraternity and stuck in a dorm? More like protected from fraternities, embraced by 30 individuals who make my college life something I wouldn't trade for the most lucrative of offerings.
E-mail concerns directly to snively [at] mit [dot] edu, not the admissions office.
Comments (Closed after 30 days to reduce spam)
Posted by: another12 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: Cody Daniel on September 5, 2008
It's finding value in the negative, which is a pretty hard thing for some people to accept. I don't think anyone should complain. It's just a different angle.
Posted by: Ester on September 5, 2008
Posted by: MIT Parent on September 5, 2008
Posted by: las1 on September 5, 2008
almost all guys participate in frat rush events
50% of guys end up in frats
==> 50% acceptance rate into frats?
I think only if we assume that A) almost all male MIT students want to be in a frat (as evidenced by the fact that they ate some free food there...?) I don't know about that... and B) everyone who gets a bid joins a frat.
Now this is where the east vs. west thing may play a part. I don't know, I've never lived anywhere but EC and Bexley and I've never noticed a frat presence. Less than 20% maybe are even interested. And those that are interested generally get to go somewhere. I think maybe you just got unlucky. Also, I know a fair amount of people who love their dorm and their dormmates as well as their frat brothers, it doesn't have to be either/or, you don't have to give up one thing to have the other. Many frats allow you to stay in your dorm and just participate in their events.
Posted by: lulu on September 5, 2008
50% of males are in frats doesn't mean 50% move into the frats. I don't think it's nearly that much, but I don't have the numbers.
anyhow sorry to be so serious, I just think this entry makes fraternities out to be this really central part of every male experience at MIT, and it's not at all the case. Or it doesn't have to be. You shouldn't feel left out if you're not interested, plenty aren't. And if you are interested, your chances are pretty good, so you shouldn't be nervous about the rush process.
Posted by: lulu on September 5, 2008
50% joining though, doesn't that mean that 50% of the males are in frats? I'm pretty sure it does.
Posted by: Snively on September 5, 2008
I don't know, in my experience fraternities aren't SOO miles away omg so detached from dorm life that you're taking a huge plunge and you'll never go back. Of course you can mak eit that way if you like, but just as an example my boyfriend is off doing fratty things with his frat right now, but he lives in a dorm year round and mostly associate with his dorm visits the frat maybe once every week or so.
Posted by: lulu on September 5, 2008
Posted by: lulu on September 5, 2008
Posted by: '08 grad on September 5, 2008
In the other hand, people tend to adapt to anything, so in my opinion, if Snively had joined a frat, he would have probably liked it and said he'd never be better off living in the dorms.
In the end, you'll find the good in everything and stick to it, thinking it was the best choice/thing that happened. So I don't see the point in arguing over pathetic games.
Very interesting entry, Snively. And I am so glad you pointed this out from a completely different point of view, as opposed to all the positive things we heard from Melis(in the sorority side) and Paul. Keep up your very unique style of blogging; it's invaluable for a great deal of us.
Posted by: Happy'12 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: Happy'12 on September 5, 2008
I've always presumed that Fraternity/Sororities were kind of like a big cheesy designer logo plastered across your posterior so other people could assess your social bling. I hope I am wrong though - MIT probably isn't like that.
Posted by: Sombody on September 5, 2008
And for this story, there are lots of other stories I hear of guys getting followed by fraternities begging to know why they didn't accept their bid, or why they haven't come by the house, etc. But it all depends on the fraternitiy, I guess.
Basically, my point is, there are 27 (?) fraternities at MIT, and there's a lottttt of variation. But I liked this entry, and I'm glad you told your story! (If this sounded antagonistic at all, I tried not to be.. sorry.. I completely agree with the floor community stuff, as you know well.. and I'm sick.. bleh.)
Posted by: Jess on September 5, 2008
Posted by: Jess on September 5, 2008
HILLBILLY GOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's what it's called when you "throw golf balls attached to some string at a horizontal piece of PVC."
You would only know that if you grew up in a midwest HICK TOWN like me! The other popular midwest HICK TOWN game is called CORN HOLE. I'm not even making this up, it's similar to playing a game of bean bag toss.
Maybe I will start an MIT Hillbilly Golf Team or an MIT Corn Hole team. Any takers?
Posted by: anonymous on September 5, 2008
Posted by: '11 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: 2011 on September 5, 2008
In answer to your question about the cost of living in a fraternity, I've found that the cost is generally comparable to (or less than) that of living in a dorm. I went Greek freshman year, and one of the many things that appealed to me about joining a fraternity was that I'd actually save several hundred dollars a year compared to living on campus. Oh, and it's not a dumb question by any means.
Posted by: 0 on September 5, 2008
YER DOIN IT RONG
Posted by: current '11 on September 5, 2008
Never did I complain about them being upfront. Read the entry again.
@current'11
Thinking that simply tagging along would get me a bid is foolish, and not what I typed.
I spent time making sure I worded things properly, I'd appreciate it if you spent time reading exactly what I wrote.
Posted by: Snively on September 5, 2008
It's your job as an admissions blogger to give incite on many topics and issues, even if they are a bit controversial. Also, I didn't think you came off as offending.
Wow, I think this has to be the longest comment I've typed in my two years of stalking these blogs. :p
Posted by: Steph on September 5, 2008
Posted by: 0 on September 5, 2008
This is factually incorrect. Although you are right that 50% of males in a given incoming class will join a fraternity, this is not to say that only 50% of males who Rush get bids. That's assuming a 100% acceptance rate which is very much not the case. I don't have specific numbers on me, but I can assure you that many more than half of the guys who rush end up getting bids.
It's unfortunate that your Rush experience did not go as well as you had hoped, but please refrain from expressing that frustration in your writing. Many of the statements and generalizations in your post above are terribly misleading and far off the mark.
To parent of a '12: I suggest you send an email to the Interfraternity Council Executive Board (ifc-exec@mit.edu) if you want detailed and accurate answers to your questions.
Posted by: AlsoAnonymous on September 5, 2008
As for the "detriment" of houses in Boston, I actually find the situation to be quite the opposite. I love living in Boston, I love having an actual house to call my own, I love the community and brotherhood I've found in my fraternity. I unequivocally agree with Snively's overall message that you don't need to live in a fraternity to find community - but as has been said, there is a place for everyone at MIT; and I feel at home in my fraternity.
As for the pledging process, the process of being initiated into my fraternity was undoubtedly one of the most exciting, rewarding, and enjoyable aspects of my first semester at MIT. Every fraternity takes care not to ensure that the pledge process doesn't unduly interfere with a new member's academics and other extra-curriculars. This is MIT, after all: we wouldn't be here if we didn't prioritize our academics.
If you have more questions about your son and the pledging process, please feel free to email me. I would be happy to talk to you.
@Everyone: Naturally, I have a lot of feelings about this issue...I like this entry, I like that I am not the only person talking about the fraternity system on the blogs.
But I do also feel that some of the sentiments expressed in this entry are somewhat misleading or incorrect. Since I do not feel that these comments are the right place to talk about my concerns, I have opened a discussion with Snively via email, and I am optimistic we will come to a better understanding. And of course, I will continue to mention Greek life and share my personal stories in my own entries, as well as talk a little more about Rush, the pledging process, and other related issues.
Finally, as I already mentioned, if anyone - parents, prospective students, current students - has any questions or concerns about any aspect of Greek life, I would be happy to answer them via email.
Posted by: Paul on September 5, 2008
Posted by: photon on September 5, 2008
I changed the wording a bit.
@AlsoAnonymous
It's unfortunate that your Rush experience did not go as well as you had hoped, but please refrain from expressing that frustration in your writing.
I'm sorry if my writing expressed emotion. I'll try to be more stagnant next time.
Posted by: Snively on September 5, 2008
It's unfortunate that you have a problem with Snively expressing his frustration in his writing. It's deplorable that you are asking him to refrain. Many of the statements and generalizations are pretty much a bulls-eye, so I would be interested to hear which you believe are off the mark.
Posted by: Bob '08 on September 5, 2008
Just as with MIT's dorms and colleges in general, the most important thing about Rush is whether or not an interested freshman (or sophomore) "fits" in a particular fraternity. Rush is, after all, a mutual selection process between interested students and fraternity houses: each has to accept the other.
Posted by: Paul on September 5, 2008
Posted by: MITParent2011 on September 5, 2008
It is good to know that life outside of fraternity is equally good. With so much hype on the fraternity life at MIT it's a consolation to know that 'rejected by fraternities' also form a close group and have a great experience.
Posted by: Mom '13 on September 5, 2008
I was never planning on joining a fraternity, but I was also concerned I might miss out on something.
Thanks for the reassurance.
Posted by: 0 on September 5, 2008
I don't think we should get caught up in the accuracy or inaccuracy of the numbers - who cares if it's 50% or 25% or 75% or 42%. Fact is, some people get rejected by fraternities. Also, some people reject fraternities. The rush process generates as much frustration as it does happiness. And if MIT is to continue its tradition of being open and honest about every aspect of the Institute, its people should write about both the good and the bad. As I'm quickly finding out, it's not all sunshine and puppies here. =)
Posted by: Hawkins '12 on September 5, 2008
Snively, I was considering emailing you about this, but I'd sort of like to address your audience as well, because you are getting a lot of feedback on this.
I didn't go Greek, so I don't have any reason to be personally offended by your post. But it bothers me just the same. You've made this into a tremendous "us vs. them" issue that it doesn't need to be.
Yes, you don't need an FSILG to have a close-knit community. I had an amazing close-knit community on 5th East that I wouldn't have traded for anything. You're absolutely right about that, and correct to reassure people that at MIT, you can have that sort of community whether you live in a dorm or an FSILG.
In the process of making this valuable point, however, you've reinforced a bunch of people's stupid stereotypes about the Greek system - look at some of the responses you got! You come off sounding very bitter. And you make it sound like fraternity brothers don't have what you have.
Guess what? I wouldn't take *your* living group over mine for a million dollars, even though I like the people that I've met on it. There are several FSILGs, in fact, that I would take first. But you don't see me whaling on your living group, making it look bad to prefrosh and their parents, in a public forum. "Protected" from fraternities? How much more adversarial can you get? What about live and let live? What about the part where the whole point of MIT residence selection is that people can find the right living group for *them*, whether it's in a dorm or an FSILG? You obviously found the right living group for you - so why go after other people's? Do you seriously think that you are, or need to be, protected from fraternities?
Back when I was running for UAVP I got repeatedly slammed by people, including some of my own friends, who didn't like that I was running on a ticket with a fraternity guy. What's the point of promoting that mindset? Why portray two dozen living groups that are valuable to their people, in the way that yours is valuable to you, as dark and sketchy? Why promote the idea of dorm people as victims of an oppressive, dominant, system, when it's not true?
Posted by: Jessie on September 5, 2008
The administrative offices that get irritated at Admissions over stuff on the blogs and elsewhere *love* anti-fraternity sentiment. They love the propagation of the idea that the FSILGs are oppressing the masses. They're the same people who pushed Freshmen On Campus, and pushed (and push) against student choice in housing in general, and have often used the excuse that freshmen might get their feelings hurt by the mean old system to do so.
Posted by: Jessie on September 5, 2008
Posted by: anonanon on September 5, 2008
Posted by: Ehsan on September 5, 2008
I think that you complitely missed the point Snively tried to convey when he said "I'm going to be honest. BUT, I'm also going to try really hard to not make everybody mad at me."
If his comments came off as sentimental or bitter, his very-carefully-chosen words and the limited amount of existent vocabulary that to address and provide a different perspective (other than the one that had been provided before) to such a provocative issue without hurting anyone, limited him to not do so.
For this matter, I think it was inevitable not to come off as bitter and protective when he was only expressing experiences. I think you were not careful enough to distinguish his opinion from the, as seem to claim, otherwise intent at sounding “bitter" and “adversal”.
I think the resentment you perceive from the entry is the part where Snively was actually being “honest” or expressing his feelings/opinion towards fraternities as he stated he was going to at the beginning of the entry.
If Paul and other bloggers have already expressed their opinions on fraternities and sororities, isn’t it fair for Snively to express his? As you see from the comments, MANY of us have appreciated that he had the courage to unfold an otherwise unseen side of the story.
Now, again, I don’t think he meant to make this as an “us VS them” type of deal. And he clearly states that his intention is not to make everybody mad at him, so why would he make it this way? If it came along as adversal, it was not his intention.
You proceed to say, “You’ve reinforced a bunch of people's stupid stereotypes about the Greek system”
Seriously? I don’t think anyone needs any reinforcement on “stupid stereotypes about the Greek system.”! In fact, I am almost certain the feedback he received would not have been any different if the people who made them had been asked their opinions on fraternities before Snively published this entry.
He never enforced anything, and if he really wanted to be that provocative, I am sure he could have done a better job than “I'm also going to try really hard to not make everybody mad at me." Stereotypes will never disappear, even if MIT’s Greek system is an alien to the rest of the US’s Greek systems in terms of culture.
Also, “Protected from fraternities” is not adversal. Here’s another example where I think you missed the point, where you should have paid attention to the tone of this entry, because this was not his intent.
What I think he meant by “protected” is that he was being taken away from what fraternities had to offer him, which as he states, would have taken away the experiences he has gone through by living in the dorms.
This is why I think you should have paid attention to the mentioned sentence.
@the concerned:
He’s just expressing honesty people, but, unfortunately, there’s always a limited way in which one can express it without being hurtful to others. That’s just vocabulary limitations.
To sum up my point, I think all people concerned with this entry are making a bigger deal out of it than they should, when really Snively meant to convey such a simple but very important message. It'd help just to read more carefully, as I think Snively has also pointed out at some of the commenters.
Posted by: Sam'09 on September 5, 2008
so many applicants, so few openings. Frat houses have a week to get to know you. Admissions has an application and three essays. Everyone prays those selected are the right fit. Rejection goes both ways.
Posted by: intleyes Mom'09 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: mom of sorority girl '11 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: WFM on September 5, 2008
Posted by: anonymous on September 5, 2008
It's fine if you don't like frats/sororities, because it's definitely not for everybody, but you don't need to make them look like they're big meanies for not letting you into their frat. I understand the way you feel, but you could've conveyed this in some other way, highlighting how much you love living in your dorm instead of being all like "well the frat hated me, and i'm still bitter about it, but i ended up liking my dorm anyway!"
Posted by: milena '11 on September 5, 2008
Agreed. I'm not going to change the entry at this point because it still serves a valuable purpose worded as it is, but an entry along the lines you two have suggested would be very fitting as well.
Posted by: Snively on September 5, 2008
One mom has compared this to the admission process (application + 3 essays) but remember along with that application was years of hard work and excellent credentials/recommendations. Rush week does not give prospective freshman any time to make an impression.
Posted by: anonymous on September 5, 2008
Posted by: mom '11 on September 5, 2008
As a freshman who recently participated in rush, I can say that there is a lot of pressure and politics involved in rush because of the short time window. I think it's naive to say that nothing shady goes on during rush, or that everyone is given the chance to explore all their options. Realism is often mistaken for cynicism...
Posted by: Hawkins '12 on September 5, 2008
Posted by: anon on September 5, 2008
I believe your point was very well made with your first sentence. I found your second sentence unnecessary and unkind. Life is much too short to spend any time being hurtful to anyone.
p.s. I don't know Snively.
Posted by: anonymous on September 5, 2008
And yet most people seem to end up exactly where they should be - one of the fraternities, a particular hall, wherever. Almost everyone at MIT enjoys their living group cultures. Flawed system? Perhaps, but I would no sooner cut fraternity rush than switch to randomized housing.
And I really, really dislike the idea of randomized housing.
Posted by: Piper on September 6, 2008
The other side of fraternities involves a fraternity man being told by his own brothers that the kid he likes, the kid he has been inviting over, the kid he wants to have as a fraternity little brother, the kid he wants to help develop into a better person instilled with new and exciting ideals and values he believes in, just isn't going to make the cut and he has to personally deliver that message to the freshman he's been excited about since campus preview weekend in April.
Sometimes its just the opposite and the kid gets a bid and becomes a brother and proudly displays his letters.
I'm sorry, but a kid who has only done one recruitment on the freshman side is not an expert on "the sides of fraternities". If you are interested in getting your questions subjectively answered you can easily contact the Interfraternity Council at ifc-exec@mit.edu who are trained and experienced in everything imaginable and are advised my amazing Deans and Directors or directly contact the recruitment chair at ifc-rushchair@mit.edu, not a one sided blogger who is paid for his controversy.
Posted by: Alum '08 on September 6, 2008
No, actually this is the other side. This is the side of "I wanted a bid but didn't get one." Maybe the circumstances surrounding that were unique to me, but this is definitely a totally legitimate scenario.
Also, the reason this entry shows up under a picture of me is to let people know that they'll be reading my opinion about things that have happened to me.
Furthermore, I'm not paid for my controversy, otherwise I'd have like $20.
Posted by: Snively on September 6, 2008
That's a pretty silly thing to say. You have no way of knowing you would regret it, because you've never experienced fraternity life. You say you would have missed out on a lot of things in Conner 2, but you don't know what you're currently missing out on by not being in a fraternity. There's things to be missed in both scenarios, and you don't have the knowledge of both sides necessary to justify saying that you are better suited for one over the other.
Posted by: anotherAnonymous on September 6, 2008
Then again, the same thing happens with dorm rush. The only reason why I wouldn't say dorm rush is flawed is because if you get into a dorm you end up not liking you can always switch out. To the best of my knowledge, this doesn't happen with frats; if you're affiliated with one of them, then that's it, brothers for life. So I guess waiting a term or a year would be best, because then you'll know people from the different frats and make a better decision.
Posted by: milena '11 on September 6, 2008
There's a problem with your "waiting a term or a year" deal. You only get four years. If you wait a term or a year, you're costing yourself the experience of that community for that term or year.
If we switched to a freshman dorm, or randomized housing for freshmen, then everyone would be protected from the possible consequences of their and others choices for a year. I would consider that a loathsome system for MIT, one that dozens of MIT students worked their butts off to prevent several years ago. Freshmen benefit tremendously from living with upperclassmen, freshmen benefit from the close communities that they are able to form so early (when many of them need them most) and freshmen benefit from the chance to make their own decisions as adults.
This is MIT, and students have to make choices. Just like in the rest of life, students don't always have complete info when they make those choices, but they do the best they can with what they have. Students are given freedom here, and not protected from themselves. And that is how I (and the overwhelming majority of students I have known, regardless of where they live) think it should be.
Sam '09: Of course Snively is entitled to his opinion. That doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to argue with him about it, to try to convince him that some amount of his opinion is wrong, or to mention to him that his expression could have consequences he didn't intend.
And if you think that I misread Snively...given his response to me, he apparently disagrees with you, at least to some degree (and I give him credit for responding graciously when he could have been defensive about what I said).
You seem to have this idea that if people are expressing their *opinions* then nobody should ever get mad or offended, because it's just their opinion. What, pray tell, is worth getting mad or offended over, then? Facts?
I would also like to point out to those commenters who seem to think that this is the first entry ever to talk about how you can have a close community in a dorm, and have been praising Snively for that (not that he doesn't deserve praise for talking about it, I'm taking issue with the attitude that this point is somehow new)...people, a *huge* proportion of student blogger entries over the years have been about this. Probably at least a third of my entries were about this. If you think that nobody has ever expressed this point before, you may need to go back and do some reading.
Posted by: Jessie on September 6, 2008
As a freshman, I was entirely uninterested in joining a fraternity. But I still "did Rush," not because I was keeping an open mind about Greek life, but because I wanted free food. The first night of Rush, I scanned the activities booklet for the group that was giving out the most expensive meals and assembled a raiding party of several of my newfound friends at my dorm.
We had the fraternity pick us up in a van and take us to their house, where we sat in a closed circle in the middle of the common area. Only one brother even tried to talk to us because our message was clear--we reject your brotherhood but accept your free food.
Some time later, I decided that I was not satisfied merely taking steak and lobster from this fraternity. I stole away one of its Rush girls, too. In the interest of discretion, I'll say no more on that topic.
If I had joined a fraternity, I might be posting here to say that I found lifelong friends, a community of men with strong values, a place to grow into the best I can be, or some other such nonsense. Instead, I live in a community with a few dozen of the blackest souls at MIT or anywhere else. I enjoy the friendship and company of every single person in my living group, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Posted by: Jack on September 6, 2008
Posted by: Rebecca on September 6, 2008
Matt or Stu or anyone else reading: can I do a guest blogger piece on this? Thanks!
Some benefits of ILGs:
* Meal plan (very cheap)
* Off-campus housing with the benefits of MIT housing (MIT Internet, MIT-paid RA [like a GRT])
* Students own the house they live in
* Strong alumni network (exists in dorms/FSs, too)
* No national organization to collect dues
* Flexible rush schedules/times/bid policies
* 5/6 are coed (two are former fraternities that went coed)
* Practical house maintenance/budget managing skills
Posted by: Sondy '07 G on September 6, 2008
Posted by: anon on September 6, 2008
You are my new hero.
Posted by: 0 on September 6, 2008
The most important distinction between MIT's spring rush and similar periods elsewhere is that most MIT fraternities have only one pledge class each year, in the fall. So even if you become interested in fraternity life in the spring and it's clear that a particular house really likes you, you may have to wait until the fall to formally pledge. (Though it is certainly possible for sophomores who are not yet brothers to move into a fraternity house.)
Posted by: Paul on September 6, 2008
Posted by: 0 on September 6, 2008
my bad. I was told that you could deaffiliate and still not join another frat; I guess my source wasn't well informed.
But I still feel like waiting some time before going greek might help in making a more informed decision. This might not be a perfectly compatible analogy, but it's all I have, given the fact that I never did sorority rush (or whatever it's called). When I first came to Senior House during CPW, I HATED it. I thought it reeked, the people were bitchy, and it was just scary in general. But over the summer I made friends who lived in Senior House and when I checked it out again, I instantly fell in love with the place and the culture. I assume this doesn't just happen to me, so maybe waiting a while and then checking it out again isn't so bad. Of course, some people walk into a frat and instantly feel like they belong, so obviously those people should just go ahead and join their freshman year.
And I don't think joining your sophomore year would be that bad. I know a couple of people who have done it, and they don't seem to regret it. To each his own, I guess.
Posted by: milena '11 on September 7, 2008
At the same time, there's a frat for everyone (I mean that in the literal sense; I think that there is one singular frat that everyone should join, but I guess I'm not allowed to say it on MITblogs because that's free advertising or something). Guys might as well do rush. Go in with an open mind. Don't give them your cell phone number, though.
What Jessie posted was pretty smart. People criticizing Snively anonymously are lame.
Posted by: Sam on September 7, 2008
And who is to say which opinion is wrong, when in the end, only facts can be proven right or wrong with the majority of the subjects agreeing to it by observation/experiment, etc...?
Posted by: Sam'09 on September 7, 2008
Posted by: MITMom'12 on September 7, 2008
Posted by: Snively Supporter on September 8, 2008
uh, "unidentified backstabbers"? dude, they're just two people with their own opinions on this guy. chill out. and while you may be right in that those two have nothing to do with Snively being rejected from fratdom, I think this commenter was just trying to give offer insight or an alternative view as to how other people might (gasp) not worship Snively.
Posted by: Indifferent to Snively on September 8, 2008
Posted by: this is dumb on September 9, 2008
I do agree that you were in no way complaining about your experience. And your experience is one that rarely gets told. But it was still one sided. As a freshman rushing a Fraternity, you did not see how rush works behind the scenes. You did not see why the events happened the way they did. This post shows the disappointment of a freshman, but not the reasoning behind why that Fraternity did not bid you.
Fraternities take no pleasure in rejecting a freshman that seems to really like the house. Often times if a house has a freshman that is very interested in them, but the house doesn't see them as a good fit, that house will call a different house that they think will be a good fit for that freshman in hopes of allowing that freshman to still join the Greek system.
Never let the possibility of failure deter you from trying.
Posted by: GreekMan11 on September 9, 2008
Posted by: 0 on September 11, 2008
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