We were all saddened by the news of Marilee Jones' resignation. In reacting, we must recognize and learn from two elements that may seem to be at odds with one another: Marilee's contributions over the years and her mistakes. And we must move forward.
Marilee's influence was widely felt. The message of "being" vs. "doing," quality over quantity, and injecting sanity into the way parents and students approach college admissions, came at an important time for our culture, and is one that resonated deeply with many. At the same time, what Marilee did was wrong. While we don't expect our applicants to be perfect, we do require them to be truthful. And we must hold ourselves to that standard.
I want to reassure everyone - especially those in the MIT community (and that includes you, members of the class of 2011) - that our admissions process is, and always has been, extremely rigorous and fair. Before any applicant is accepted, that person's application passes through five stages of review and is evaluated by multiple selection teams comprised of admissions officers, faculty, and members of the Committee on Undergraduate Admissions and Financial Aid. This meritocratic and committee-based process is as rigorous and thorough as you will find anywhere. It has been basically the same for more than fifty years, stretching over the tenures of half a dozen deans and directors. And while we are always striving for improvement, we are very proud of this process and, most importantly, of its demonstrated results.
The admissions office has a profound responsibility. We love what we do, connecting world-class students who have a passion to change the world with the world-class faculty and resources that can successfully prepare them to do that. The students who enter MIT bring with them the talent, the hope, and the courage that energizes this campus. It is this energy that inspires all of us to reach higher, and to go further.
I remember the first time I felt this energy, arriving on campus as a freshman, 25 years ago. The special MIT culture lifted me up during my years as an undergraduate. After four years in Course 2, and twenty years in various roles in the athletic department, alumni association, and admissions office, I retain a profound appreciation for this culture, which encourages students to be incredibly engaged and think that nothing is impossible.
The real mission of the admissions office is to enroll not only the best students in the world, but also those who are best matched to MIT's culture: students who will take full advantage of the opportunities here, and who will add to the diversity and vibrancy of the living and learning community.
There is a deep trust placed in us by the MIT community, and indeed, by the world. I, and the outstanding staff in the admissions office, re-affirm our pledge to uphold the ideals of MIT and to demand of ourselves the same high standards of excellence, fairness, and rigor in our admissions process as MIT holds throughout the institution.
We are committed to learn from the past, as we create the future.
Comments (Closed after 30 days to reduce spam)
Posted by: Ishan on May 4, 2007
I needed to remove the name of the EC from your comment to respect his privacy, but we'll definitely look into this. Sorry to hear about your experience.
Ben
Posted by: Ben on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Basant'11 on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Parent on May 4, 2007
I'm sorry this has happened, but I will hold confidence that MIT will come out of this situation stronger than before.
I do have serious and sincere questions and am hoping you can give clarity to some confusion:
If Marilee's messages about "less stress" and "quality vs quantity" are to be believed, why did Marilee tell a large audience at CPW '06 that she was having her daughter apply to 11 (eleven) colleges, which must have been very stressful?
Now my daughter, who heard Marilee that day and is considering applying to MIT in two years, believes she has to apply to 11 (eleven) colleges, too. What would you have me tell my daughter?
Thank you and best wishes,
Mom, Class '10
Posted by: HappyPoet on May 4, 2007
Perhaps she just wanted her daughter to have a wide variety of colleges to choose from and apply to, or maybe her daughter WANTED to do that. You should tell your daughter to do whatever she thinks is right when it's time for her to apply - be that 11 colleges or 1. She needs to be her own person.
Posted by: 0 on May 4, 2007
My high school counselors always instructed me to apply to as many schools as I desired, but understanding the difference between the 3 different types of schools. 1. You have your "dream" schools. These are schools that no matter how excellent of a student you might be, there is never a 100% guarantee that you will be excepted. MIT falls into this category with all Ivy League schools as well. 2. You have your "likely" schools. Basically, you've done everything necessary to be accepted, but it's still not a "sure thing." Lastly, 3. You have your "safety school." Anyone applying to college should have at least 1 of these. Your safety school is the one you are absolutely guaranteed an acceptance letter from.
Ultimately, I don't think it matters just how many schools you (or your student) is applying to. It's more important that they have a clear understanding of what category their schools of choice fit into, so that they are not caught off guard if they are denied from their all of their schools and have no where to go.
I think it's very important for student to strive for the best, but also be realistic and have those safety schools just in case the others don't pan out.
Posted by: 0 on May 4, 2007
Posted by: jasmine on May 4, 2007
THAT BEING SAID. . .
Yay! I'm so glad the blogs are back, and I'm also glad that people aren't being nasty about this whole situation. This was a well written article, very thought out and well-put. Are we thinking that the other bloggers welcomed the break, or are they chomping at the bit to blog again???
Posted by: Snively on May 4, 2007
Hopefully, by the time she applies (and matures), I'll have gotten over my "sticker shock" about the number eleven and will be able to help our family through whatever stress will come our way.
Best wishes and good luck to everyone.
Bye, Mom Class '10
Posted by: HappyPoet on May 4, 2007
-James Montgomery
Posted by: JamesM on May 4, 2007
Posted by: anonymous on May 4, 2007
Besides the fact that the applications are themselves pricey ($50-75 each this year), take into consideration the costs of: test-taking; sending scores beyond the 4 "free" ones allowed; AP test fees, and fees for sending those scores too; any travel to visit schools; financial aid processing fees (IDOC and CSS). Most of these have a "fee waiver" process, if you qualify, and are willing to reveal the soft white underbelly of your finances. But these things often take us old baby boomers (many of whom were able to work our way through college--forget that now!) by surprise. You've been down this road already, though!
If your daughter is focused and sure about what she wants, this won't even be an issue. If she's questioning, she might appreciate limits to help her focus.
Posted by: Parent who has been there on May 4, 2007
Overall, the way MIT dealt with the situation was commendable. There is just no other way it could have been handled. The integrity and name of the institution has to be kept above board no matter what - that is exactlty what MIT did.
Posted by: A parent on May 4, 2007
I am a sophmore iin high school, and i was just wondering. What would you suggest would be the best way to get into MIT? Its one of the most competitive schools in the United States, and i would love to be in that enviroment. However, i go to a private high school which gives more work than my friends get. Its often hard to handle the workload that we receive and i am possitive that MIT is my first choice. The reason im am positng this here is because this article got me worried about the admissions proccess. How will i ever get in to a college that everyone wants to go to as well as stay succesfull?
Posted by: Anonymous on May 4, 2007
Moving on from that topic though, I would like to ask a question to admissions.
I am currently studying abroad my junior year of high school. My question is how this may affect admission. I am receiving credit from my American school for some of the classes I am taking, but the grades do not count, as I did not start learning the language (Czech) until I got to the country, and was not able to participate in the classes. Now, even when I participate when I can, the grades I recieve are not good because I do not understand everything, and have missed a good chunk of the material. So basically, I will not have junior year grades, but rather an unusual experience during which I have learned about many things other than those you learn about in school.
I would just like to know admissions thought on a situation like this.
Posted by: Becca on May 4, 2007
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/ivy_league/ivy_league_cs3.htm
Perfect test scores, honors, great extracurricular activities including volunteer work. But as you can see under "Ivy League Admissions - Outcomes & Conclusion" he got rejected from MIT. The whole application process is sometimes really a mystery.
Posted by: duff on May 4, 2007
Posted by: international '11 on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Stephan '11 on May 4, 2007
You are in the EXACT same situation I was in my junior year. I was a Rotary exchange student in Argentina my junior year. I didn't learn Spanish until I got there, and therefore did not receive grades at all. I was really worried about getting into college, but I'm going to MIT next year so I'm proof that it can be done! My advice to you would be to take full advantage of your experience abroad and start worrying about college applications when you get home. Try to take the most advanced courses you can during your senior year, even if that means catching up on your own time. In my case, the exchange didn't hurt my chances of getting in to MIT at all. In fact, having such an unusual high school experience probably helped my chances. Enjoy the rest of your time abroad and good luck next year!
Posted by: Anna '11 on May 4, 2007
Posted by: heat on May 4, 2007
I would like to know if that will affect the Transfer Admissions process in any way (will decisions still be mailed on May 15?)
Posted by: 0 on May 4, 2007
-lulu
Posted by: lulu on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Kevin R. '11 on May 4, 2007
Congratulations to you, Matt, Ben, the admissions office and the entire school community for handling a difficult situation with honesty, grace and professionalism.
But then, I wouldn’t expect anything else from MIT.
Posted by: Proud Mom '11 on May 4, 2007
Posted by: De Petagma Saru on May 4, 2007
This woman even took advantage of her title at MIT Admission Office to co-author a book about admission and advertised it on the web site at MIT. It is unthical for this woman to do that. Many parents bough her book because of her title. Now we found out that we were being cheated by this liar. I don't know why MIT would allow this woman to advertise her book on the MIT web site.
Posted by: A Parent on May 4, 2007
Marcel, the student profiled on CollegeConfidential, is an international student. International students face far more competition for positions in U.S. schools than do U.S. citizens. I think MIT admits only 100 or so international students to undergrad study. We don't know anything about other applicants from the same country as Marcel, but they could have been just as strong. The main thing I'd ask is this: So what if he didn't get into MIT? He was accepted to Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, and several other great schools. There are no guarantees of acceptance to an elite school like MIT, no matter how good one's profile. MIT, like many other schools, assembles a class of students with diverse interests and backgrounds. Marcel will have a wonderful education at one of his other choices, and he can apply to MIT for graduate school later, if he chooses.
Posted by: Parent on May 4, 2007
The MIT admissions process is completely transparent, it's amazing. There is nothing they won't tell you about how they decide who gets in. They have an introductory screener, they have a review by a member of the admissions staff, they have committee meetings, and then the final decision is made by the dean. They look for people that are smart, dedicated, want to make a difference, and have a personality. If they feel as though you'll get along well at MIT, then you "match". Seriously, if you have any doubt or questions about how the admissions at MIT work, just ask Ben Jones or Matt McGann, they'll answer your questions in a really straightforward way, there's no hiding anything.
Posted by: Snively on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Mike A. '11 on May 4, 2007
The wisdom Marilee contributed to her book was her own. If you bought the book, I presume you chose to do so based on her reputation as an innovative and insightful admissions director, not because of her purported colleges--weren't you paying for the content rather than the cover?
Posted by: Emily on May 4, 2007
That said, I'm glad that MIT is moving forward. MIT handled this in the best way possible.
Note: Read The Tech. She DOES have a college degree, just not at those institutions.
Posted by: Melissa '11 on May 4, 2007
It's sad to see someone make mistakes in the past, but then its even worse to see that they're not forgiven in future. She may have made that mistake when she was young, and less mature, but that never changes what she actually was - a gem of a person. Her only mistake was that she had failed to admit her mistake, not out of the desire to lie, but only because she knew that it would cost her something that she deeply loved.
Marilee Jones was indeed a person for whom, MIT's wellbeing was everything, and having lost her, I am sure that MIT is going to miss her. All of us students and applicants will miss her. Its never easy to let go of a person as genuine as her.
I know it may sound easy, but I still wish that Marilee was forgiven for her mistake. All of us make mistakes in our youth; its only a part of growing up. Add to that the fact that she didn't reveal her details because she was in love with MIT, no less. MIT has lost a lot.
I had applied to MIT for Fall - 2007 and got rejected. It does not matter at all, because of all people at MIT, I believe that Marilee would've wanted me to get admitted. And now, I'm glad that I didn't make it, because it certainly would've been hard to see all this happening.
I still have the letter of denial. Denial it may be, but it is going to stay with me for a long time to come.
God Bless,
Ashesh, India.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 4, 2007
Posted by: Vytautas on May 5, 2007
Posted by: Vytautas on May 5, 2007
Your admission department is amazing. Keep the great work up!
-Chris, '11 (oasis)
Posted by: Oasis '11 on May 5, 2007
This means we all know amazing applicants who didn't get into MIT (and other amazing applicants who didn't get into Stanford or Harvard, of course). Because their records are so strong, though, these applicants typically do get admitted to great schools - witness that the sample applicant got into several great schools. For example, the sample applicant was admitted to the University of Michigan (not even one of his top choices among the schools that admitted him), and Michigan is the university from which MIT's most recent past president, Chuck Vest, holds his M.S. and Ph.D. degrees.
Also the point that the sample applicant was an international applicant is key, as has been pointed out. MIT does limit the number of international applicants admitted, so that pool is even more competitive than the main pool.
The fact is that no student, no matter how amazing, would be well-advised to apply to MIT, or any other "dream" school, and nowhere else. Someone else wrote way above about applying to dream schools, likely schools and safety schools. Whether the total number of schools to which a student applies is eleven or some much smaller number, what matters is for an applicant to pick schools he really is interested in attending, and at least one of which will surely admit him. Where along the desirability/likelihood curve the rest of the schools fit, and to how many an applicant decides to apply, involves many quite individual and personal choices.
Posted by: Tom on May 5, 2007
Marilee Jones falsely bolstered her credentials to get a job with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and over the course of her career claimed to have earned degrees from three schools. MIT officials say now they have no evidence she ever graduated from college at all.
The school announced Thursday that Jones had resigned after acknowledging she had misrepresented her education when she started working at the university 28 years ago, and declined to correct multiple incorrect claims since then.
A senior MIT official said that by claiming degrees she had never earned, Jones could no longer lead an admissions office that occasionally rescinds the acceptance letters sent to applicants who are untruthful about their own accomplishments.
Jones was asked to resign because her actions go "against her being a model for integrity that an admissions director sets," Clay said. "It represents a very, very long deception, when there were opportunities to correct the record. This is not a mistake or an accident or an oversight."
_________________________________________________
Details:
MIT dean resigns over misrepresented credentials
POSTED: 12:15 p.m. EDT, April 27, 2007
AP) -- To stressed-out parents and students, MIT admissions dean Marilee Jones was a rare voice of reason in the high-pressure world of college admissions. With colleges demanding kids who play sports, run student government and take the heaviest course load they can, Jones shouted back the opposite: daydream, stay healthy, and don't worry so much about building a resume just to impress an elite college.
Yet it turns out that Jones was susceptible to pressure herself. She falsely bolstered her credentials to get a job with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and over the course of her career claimed to have earned degrees from three schools. MIT officials say now they have no evidence she ever graduated from college at all.
The school announced Thursday that Jones had resigned after acknowledging she had misrepresented her education when she started working at the university 28 years ago, and declined to correct multiple incorrect claims since then.
A senior MIT official said that by claiming degrees she had never earned, Jones could no longer lead an admissions office that occasionally rescinds the acceptance letters sent to applicants who are untruthful about their own accomplishments.
"We have to uphold the integrity of the institution, because that's what we've been trying to sell and she's our chief spokesperson on that," MIT Chancellor Phil Clay said. It's "regrettable, ironic, sad, but that's where we are."
Jones had become one of the most public voices urging parents, students and especially colleges themselves to "lower the flame" surrounding college admissions. She made the cause her own after growing alarmed at the increase in stress-related health problems among young people and has become a much-in-demand speaker at admissions events.
Last year, she co-authored a book: "Less Stress, More Success: A New Approach to Guiding Your Teen Through College Admissions and Beyond."
"We're raising a generation of kids trained to please adults," Jones told The Associated Press in an extensive interview last year. "Every day kids should have time when they're doing something where they're not being judged. That's the big difference with this generation. They're being judged and graded and analyzed and assessed at every turn. It's too much pressure for them."
On Thursday, MIT released a short statement from Jones in which she said she was "deeply sorry for this and for disappointing so many in the MIT community and beyond who supported me, believed in me, and who have given me extraordinary opportunities."
Clay said MIT was alerted to questions about Jones' credentials in a phone call, from someone he declined to identify, to another dean. An inquiry determined Jones had at various points claimed degrees from Union College, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the Albany Medical College, all in New York, but in fact had no degrees from any of those institutions. Clay said MIT was not aware of Jones having any undergraduate or graduate degree.
Jones was confronted on Monday, acknowledged the misrepresentations and accepted a request to resign, Clay said.
Jason Gorss, a spokesman for RPI, said Jones attended that university as a part-time, non-matriculating student in 1974 and 1975 but did not receive a degree. Officials at the other two schools said she had never been a student there.
A number of people in the college admissions field said they were saddened by the news and hoped Jones would find another venue for continuing her cause.
"She's been such a high impact and good influence on all of these admissions conversations," said Bruce Poch, dean of admissions at Pomona College in California, who knows Jones well. "This hurts."
Clay said MIT now checks credentials of new hires but did not generally do so when Jones first applied to work there. The first job she applied for, as an administrative assistant, did not require a college degree, but Clay said Jones claimed to have one. He said she did not correct that claim during her appointment process as dean in 1997.
Jones was asked to resign because her actions go "against her being a model for integrity that an admissions director sets," Clay said. "It represents a very, very long deception, when there were opportunities to correct the record. This is not a mistake or an accident or an oversight."
Lloyd Thacker, the founder of the Education Conservancy, a group also trying to tone down the admissions process, said Jones "has had a very positive impact on the lives of many students and families and has brought inspiration to the professions." Her resignation "in no way discredits the value of her work," he said.
Posted by: Read the News on May 5, 2007
Marilee Jones falsely bolstered her credentials to get a job with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and over the course of her career claimed to have earned degrees from three schools. MIT officials say now they have no evidence she ever graduated from college at all.
The school announced Thursday that Jones had resigned after acknowledging she had misrepresented her education when she started working at the university 28 years ago, and declined to correct multiple incorrect claims since then.
A senior MIT official said that by claiming degrees she had never earned, Jones could no longer lead an admissions office that occasionally rescinds the acceptance letters sent to applicants who are untruthful about their own accomplishments.
Jones was asked to resign because her actions go "against her being a model for integrity that an admissions director sets," Clay said. "It represents a very, very long deception, when there were opportunities to correct the record. This is not a mistake or an accident or an oversight."
_________________________________________________
Details:
MIT dean resigns over misrepresented credentials
POSTED: 12:15 p.m. EDT, April 27, 2007
AP) -- To stressed-out parents and students, MIT admissions dean Marilee Jones was a rare voice of reason in the high-pressure world of college admissions. With colleges demanding kids who play sports, run student government and take the heaviest course load they can, Jones shouted back the opposite: daydream, stay healthy, and don't worry so much about building a resume just to impress an elite college.
Yet it turns out that Jones was susceptible to pressure herself. She falsely bolstered her credentials to get a job with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and over the course of her career claimed to have earned degrees from three schools. MIT officials say now they have no evidence she ever graduated from college at all.
The school announced Thursday that Jones had resigned after acknowledging she had misrepresented her education when she started working at the university 28 years ago, and declined to correct multiple incorrect claims since then.
A senior MIT official said that by claiming degrees she had never earned, Jones could no longer lead an admissions office that occasionally rescinds the acceptance letters sent to applicants who are untruthful about their own accomplishments.
"We have to uphold the integrity of the institution, because that's what we've been trying to sell and she's our chief spokesperson on that," MIT Chancellor Phil Clay said. It's "regrettable, ironic, sad, but that's where we are."
Jones had become one of the most public voices urging parents, students and especially colleges themselves to "lower the flame" surrounding college admissions. She made the cause her own after growing alarmed at the increase in stress-related health problems among young people and has become a much-in-demand speaker at admissions events.
Last year, she co-authored a book: "Less Stress, More Success: A New Approach to Guiding Your Teen Through College Admissions and Beyond."
"We're raising a generation of kids trained to please adults," Jones told The Associated Press in an extensive interview last year. "Every day kids should have time when they're doing something where they're not being judged. That's the big difference with this generation. They're being judged and graded and analyzed and assessed at every turn. It's too much pressure for them."
On Thursday, MIT released a short statement from Jones in which she said she was "deeply sorry for this and for disappointing so many in the MIT community and beyond who supported me, believed in me, and who have given me extraordinary opportunities."
Clay said MIT was alerted to questions about Jones' credentials in a phone call, from someone he declined to identify, to another dean. An inquiry determined Jones had at various points claimed degrees from Union College, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the Albany Medical College, all in New York, but in fact had no degrees from any of those institutions. Clay said MIT was not aware of Jones having any undergraduate or graduate degree.
Jones was confronted on Monday, acknowledged the misrepresentations and accepted a request to resign, Clay said.
Jason Gorss, a spokesman for RPI, said Jones attended that university as a part-time, non-matriculating student in 1974 and 1975 but did not receive a degree. Officials at the other two schools said she had never been a student there.
A number of people in the college admissions field said they were saddened by the news and hoped Jones would find another venue for continuing her cause.
"She's been such a high impact and good influence on all of these admissions conversations," said Bruce Poch, dean of admissions at Pomona College in California, who knows Jones well. "This hurts."
Clay said MIT now checks credentials of new hires but did not generally do so when Jones first applied to work there. The first job she applied for, as an administrative assistant, did not require a college degree, but Clay said Jones claimed to have one. He said she did not correct that claim during her appointment process as dean in 1997.
Jones was asked to resign because her actions go "against her being a model for integrity that an admissions director sets," Clay said. "It represents a very, very long deception, when there were opportunities to correct the record. This is not a mistake or an accident or an oversight."
Lloyd Thacker, the founder of the Education Conservancy, a group also trying to tone down the admissions process, said Jones "has had a very positive impact on the lives of many students and families and has brought inspiration to the professions." Her resignation "in no way discredits the value of her work," he said.
Posted by: Read the News on May 5, 2007
MIT admissions dean resigns amid scandal
After admitting to falsifying her academic credentials, MIT Dean of Admissions Marilee Jones resigned yesterday.
"I misrepresented my academic degrees when I first applied to MIT 28 years ago and did not have the courage to correct my resume when I applied for my current job or at any time since," she said in a statement posted on MIT's website.
Throughout her time at MIT, Jones was believed to have received degrees from Albany Medical College, Union College and Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI), when in fact none of the three institutions had conferred a degree on her, MIT Chancellor Phillip Clay explained in a statement.
An RPI official confirmed that Jones had been a part-time student at the Troy, N.Y., school during the 1974-75 academic year, though she did not officially matriculate. Albany Medical College and Union College had no records in her name.
Jones started work in the MIT admissions office in an entry-level position that did not require a college degree, Clay said. By the time she was under consideration for the position of dean of admissions, Jones had already become a central figure in the office, holding the positions of assistant dean and associate dean. Thus, MIT did not make any effort to check her credentials at that time.
About a week and a half ago, however, MIT received information that threw Jones' credentials into question. Several days of investigation were enough for the institution to ask for her resignation Monday.
Posted by: News from Princeton on May 5, 2007
It is a joke that Marilee Jones claimed herself to be a scientist ...
____________________________________________
Marilee Jones is Dean of Admissions at MIT. A scientist by training, she joined the MIT Admissions Office in 1979 to lead the recruitment efforts for women.
Source: www.mitadmissions.org/Marilee.shtml ·
Posted by: A Joke on May 5, 2007
Posted by: De Petagma Saru on May 5, 2007
Yes. I agree:
"It represents a very, very long deception, when there were opportunities to correct the record. This is not a mistake or an accident or an oversight."
Throughout her time at MIT, Jones was believed to have received degrees from Albany Medical College, Union College and Rennselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI), when in fact none of the three institutions had conferred a degree on her, MIT Chancellor Phillip Clay explained in a statement.
An RPI official confirmed that Jones had been a part-time student at the Troy, N.Y., school during the 1974-75 academic year, though she did not officially matriculate. Albany Medical College and Union College had no records in her name.
Posted by: Opinion on May 5, 2007
We are upset at Marilee Jones, not MIT's admission office or students. As a matter of fact, MIT is the victim of Jones' deception.
Posted by: A Joke on May 5, 2007
What she did for the admissions department, for MIT, and for college admissions in general, is amazing. I have nothing but respect for the way she ran the department and the way that she put herself in such a prominent and controversial position despite the fact that she knew that she was in a very delicate place.
As someone said earlier, she may not have had the credentials she said she had, but she was certainly well-qualified. I hope that we can all continue her admirable work in making college admissions human again.
Posted by: Kari on May 5, 2007
Posted by: De Petagma Saru on May 5, 2007
Marliee Jones claimed herself to have 3 degrees and a scientist. She is a liar! That is why she was forced to resign from her position. That is the fact. Please don't argue!
How would you like your child's application to MIT be reviewed by a liar? That is why so many parents in US are so upset!
I don't want to ruin my weekend discussing about this extremely unpleasant topics. Case closed!
Bye! Bye! PS. I will not go to MIT web site anymore.
Posted by: A joke on May 5, 2007
I agree with the MIT community; although the actions which took place 28 years ago have forced the Institute into its current situation, Marilee Jones did nothing but good for the admissions community, the MIT community, and the rest of the world during her stay.
We are all indebted to her, like it or not, and none of us is perfect either. Let it go.
Posted by: Daniel '12 on May 5, 2007
Even so, I cannot agree with the way you simply write Marilee off as "a liar." Not only is your remark extremely demeaning, it completely disregards the high standards and commitments of the rest of the Admissions Committee. Whatever else you believe about Marilee, she - as Kari so rightly pointed out - did a world of good for MIT, and college admissions in general. Whatever else she did, whatever lies she told, no one can take that from her; and I wish they'd stop trying.
*deep breath*
With that out of the way, let me just say hooray for the blogs being back! Can't wait to get my Orientation package.
Posted by: Paul '11 on May 5, 2007
P.S.
No one says Marilee did the right thing by "telling a lie". I just wonder what prompted the person who decided to check out her credentials after so many years only when she was promoting her book. Hasn't she been dean for 10yrs?
To the guys on College confidential; calling her a liar won't get you to MIT!
And i totally agree with Emily, are people buying her book because of what it says or because she is the one who wrote it?
Please let's all be encouraging and supportive of MIT so the blogs can continue. They were not put up to be site for embarrassing MIT, Marilee and especially her family. All of us make mistakes; hers is simply made worse because of her position.
Thanks
Posted by: anonymous '11 on May 5, 2007
This whole thing actually made me more eager to get associated with MIT in any form possible. Really a place to be..
-Arihant.
Posted by: Arihant (IIT '11) on May 5, 2007
anyway, goes to show that we have a long way to go before we start making an issue over somebody's credentials when her decisions are actually improving the community.
Posted by: intern on May 5, 2007
Posted by: LC on May 5, 2007
And thanks Mr. Schmill, I'll speak for the '11s and thank you for a well-written post and for the well wishes for next year.
And if you want a joke, here's one - So, there are a bunch of functions hanging out at all of the prime locations in the city, and many of them decide to take a ride on the Number Line, the mode of transportation about the cartesian plane. Suddenly, a crazed, disjointed graph runs in, exclaiming "ILL DIFFERENTIATE YOU, I'LL INTEGRATE YOU!" Seemingly all the functions cower in their respective quadrants, guarding their local extrema. However, one function begged to differ. The disjoint graph again screamed, "ILL DIFFERENTIATE YOU, I'LL INTEGRATE YOU!" Confusedly, after no sight of concavity, he asked "You aren't afraid of me? I'll reduce you to zero!" The function stood up and declared "I am not afraid. I am e^x."
:-D
Posted by: Jon on May 5, 2007
Posted by: LC on May 5, 2007
I @Jon
I <3 math jokes like that. e^x is so crazy.
Posted by: kristin k '11 on May 5, 2007
Posted by: Snively on May 5, 2007
Along that same line...e^x was at a party one Saturday night, and was having a bit of trouble mingling with the rest of the crowd, so he decided to just sit in the corner and look on. Noticing his morosity, x^2 came along and tried to encourage him. "Why don't you try to integrate yourself into the party? I'm sure we can find a nice function that you're compatible with," said x^2. His despair deepening, e^x replied with frustration, "I have, but it just doesn't make any difference!"
That is a joke, not Marilee Jones. I'm incredibly disappointed in the way some people are publicly demeaning her and trying to treat all of her accomplishments as though they are insignificant. As has already been stated, she has done a world of good for the college admissions process, and something she did 28 years ago should not completely negate the obvious fact that she has positively influenced the world.
I personally feel indebted to Marilee Jones for my acceptance; MIT was not a college I would have even considered until I got a letter in the mail one day with the statement "You're Ready" on the front. I don't remember exactly what compelled me to open it (as any high school junior who took the SATs knows, you'll end up with boxes and boxes and boxes of college mail that you'll never even give a second thought to), but I did, and I will never regret that decision. From that day on, MIT became the number one school on my list, no, the ONLY school on my list (I didn't want to go anywhere else, and don't think I would have been happy anywhere else, so if you're applying to college next year, HAVE MORE SENSE THAN ME), and I attribute that obsession to Marilee Jones' effort to recruit women and to make the college admissions process less intimidating and more personable. I really felt as though I was not just some piece of paper being considered for admission; I was a human being, and the admissions department really cared about me as a person, and where I was to end up for the next four years.
So maybe I'm biased, and I'm sure people could probably make the case that I wouldn't feel as I do if I hadn't been accepted, but honestly, what other college admissions office will send you a Valentine's Day card? Very few, I imagine. And what other deans of admissions would get up in front of their newly admitted class and sing the Rolling Stones at Battle of the Bands? Even fewer. Probably none. That's why Marliee Jones was one of a kind. She cared. And she was not afraid to do whatever she possibly could to show it.
As jasmine said, Marilee Jones is still my hero! I wish her the best, and I hope people can find it in themselves to let her change the world again.
"You can't always get what you want,
But if you try sometimes,
You just might find,
You get what you need..."
Here's for saying that I hope she finds the chance she needs. An amazing person like her deserves it.
Posted by: Tina '11 on May 5, 2007
Personally, I think that all this talk about admitting the highest-achieving students is completely insincere. Let's just look at the international admissions process. We can safely assume that out of all the international olympiad qualifiers, there are at least 100 that apply to MIT (there were at least 400 participants only in the IMO). These persons have all achieved more than anyone of us. Their accomplishements are due precisely to the qualities that MIT values: creativity, curiosity, patience, dedication, etc, and they certainly outweigh volunteer work, sports, or any of the acitvities that the vast majority of admitted applicants list. If the principle of admitting only the highest achieving students is true, then admitted international applicants would all be olympiad participants (or winners of similar awards), which is certainly not the case.
Therefore, the admissions process evaluates applicants using some other criteria, which most likely is completely subjective. It has to do with some vague interest the officers have in an applicant and on an estimation of a person's character that simply cannot be objectively done based on 3-4 pages of unverified material. This makes the admissions process very much random. Maybe there are some reasons behind this approach, but in any case we should not be told that the admitted applicants are the "best" or those who have used opportunities to the fullest (how do you measure "fullest"? how do you know a persons true potential?) or those who truly achieve the most.
Anyway, these are just my two cents.
Posted by: Vova on May 5, 2007
I find it amusing that you urge people to uphold your right to freedom of speech, and then deny them the chance to express it themselves. To make matters worse, you run away like a feeble-minded little sheep, disgracing yourself and those who cared enough to read your posts.
My foolish fellow, your pseudonym suits you —yes, that's exactly what you are: a joke.
- - - - - - - - - -
If any other person wishes to taint the name of Mrs. Jones, they should peruse their own thoughts and actions first, so they may see that their wrongdoings were just as bad or worse; the only difference being, of course, that she actually contributed something beneficial to mankind.
This is a delicate matter, and such blatant insults are not welcomed.
- - - - - - - - - -
Vova — The ideology of MIT is not to accept the "best," but rather those best-suited to be a part of their culture.
Posted by: José P. on May 5, 2007
Now please tell me: how do you define "best-suited" and do how you figure out whether a person is well suited from 3-4 pages of limited information, most of which cannot be verified?
Posted by: Vova on May 5, 2007
Posted by: Vova on May 5, 2007
Visit the school, go to the info sessions, read the blogs, read the website, read The Tech, check out student websites, talk to kids that got in. What you'll find is a strikingly obvious attitude towards life and philosophy. To test your understanding of what MIT really stands for, ask yourself this basic question: What is the difference between MIT and CalTech? Any Techer or MIT student will be able to tell you the differences in culture and attitude. If, as you say, Olympiads and competitions trump sports and extracurriculars, perhaps CalTech and MIT look like very similar schools because both are academic powerhouses, but a closer look will reveal a striking difference in culture. Not all tech schools are created equal, and CalTech and MIT are proud of their individual identities.
When you start to truly realize that MIT is not just a tech school and doesn't admit solely based on academic achievments, you will begin to understand what "best-suited" means, in terms of culture. You simply can't define "best-suited", it's more of a feeling. You'll know if you'll fit into MIT and its culture.
Also, it only takes about 2 lines of an essay to understand a lot about a person, and MIT is asking for about 5 essays, not to mention interviews, reccommendations, transcripts, scores, portfolios, and tons of other material. People argue that there simply isn't enough room to express one's true self, but MIT's application is different. I found it extremely easy to convey who I truly was, not in 3-4 pages but in MIT's 16 pages of well-crafted inquiries.
MIT is a unique school filled with thousands of personalities that constantly provide different outlooks and unique perspectives, not simply academic all-stars.
Posted by: Snively on May 5, 2007
As for everyone arguing about Marilee, this is all pointless. I think we should follow MIT's response - we all need to move on, no matter what our opinions. When it's said and done, there's no use complaining. Look forward.
Posted by: Melissa '11 on May 6, 2007
Every time I read something like, "Marilee Jones is a liar who shamelessly distorted the truth to make herself at the top of the ladder...blah blah" or "Marilee Jones is a disgrace and deserves to be persecuted by the district attorney...blah blah" or even "Marilee Jones used her position to spite students with high achievement in school because she never had a degree...blah blah" just makes me angry.
So apparently, this world is filled with self-righteous individuals who are beside themselves when it comes to ridiculing people who mess up, and yet ignore the fact that they probably wouldn't have done anything different. Put yourself in Marilee's position - are you honestly going to come out after 28 years of hiding and just say "oops, I screwed up 3 decades ago, please fire me?" Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
During her time at MIT, Marilee helped to oversee many significant changes, including the rise in female admission, the integration of "transparent admissions," and the process of seeking "the match" - which appears to have been discussed extensively above. She did all of this without a doctorate degree, and if you ask me, I *rather* she didn't have a degree in doing so.
The world is so filled with biases on degrees and those small letters that succeed an individual's name. We get caught up worrying about whether someone is a Ph.D. or a M.D., but ignore the fact that there are many people in the world who succeeded in life and bettered their world without a degree. Take Taiwanese Plastic Corporation Chairman Wong Yong-Ching for example: he never went to middle school (only elementary education) and succeeded in revolutionized the plastic industry and became a millionaire through the process. I honestly believe that Marilee's lack of degree never hindered her in her tenure in the Admissions Office.
I fully support MIT's approach to admissions. I applied to 15 colleges this year and MIT has, by far, the most "warm" and enthusiastic admissions team. For those that claim MIT's admission process is still not transparent, I beg you to consider Stanford's. I am still mystified by Stanford - sure, I get colorful brochures from them and enthusiastic letters, but where is the "personal feel" that I find lacking?
Once again, I applaud MIT's approach to this issue - it just demonstrates the professionalism and honesty MIT has towards the admission process.
-Chris '11 (oasis)
Posted by: Oasis '11 on May 6, 2007
LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing, only you said it in a more relatable and funnier way.
Honestly, I wish Marilee Jones wasn't forced to resign. If she was still the dean, I'd still think I have a chance next year of being admitted.
Posted by: LC on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Melissa '11 on May 6, 2007
Belive me when I say this, I have read all the blogs and still read them even after rejection from MIT, and still love MIT and would still one day like to walk in the infinite corridor.And no matter what I will walk in the infinite corridor one day.
Believe me all the people out here in India say that MIT does not publish it,but they do take good care that they do not admit students with insuficient funds, as was the case with me.
Believe me sir, everyone was shocked here when I got rejected,even my school's Principal. And what everyone said was - " You don't know what's going behind the scenes, they don't want students who can only pay one year's fee, and moreover who the hell would like to help students of some other country". I received e-mails from all my firends aksing me to urge MIT to reconsider the whole admission decision once more!!! I knew it's impossible.
And believe me there's a whole lot of talking going on about MIT and there admission decisions.
I don't doubt it but HAS MADE ME THINK, are people right??, Am I wrong thinking MIT makes decision without financial matters in mind????.I just couldn't resist writing to you.
Also there has been a lot of things going around about the MIt's EC in India about whom Ishan mentioned in his first post=> I must say all this is wrong, i was too interviewed by him. He is a very genuine person and believe's in knowing everything about the applicant. I must say I had to completely demostrate my abilities to him and I think this is what should be done at MIT. I am really sorry to say but all what is going out at MIT about him and at collegeconfdential is nothing but crap. He told me each and everything he could about MIT and that's what is reqd of one interviewer.His interviews were tough, I had to prepare for them but I must say I had to give him a view of all my capabilities and that's the way MIT can differentiate a unique student whom MIT wants out of the regular class toppers. He is the best guy I have ever met and he has guided me a lot. There's nothing wrong baout it.
Please contact me if MIT wants me to further explain on the issue, I'll be glad to help MIT out of this EC mess in anyway. I have mentioned my e-mail id in the e-mail address part.
Posted by: Utkarsh on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Utkarsh on May 6, 2007
MIT looks for the perfect match as explained on this website and is genuinely *NEED-BLIND*. And remember, no. of awesome applicants >>>>>>> no. of seats.
All the best!
PS - And yeah! I've an Indian Passport.
Posted by: Basant'11 on May 6, 2007
I don't pretend to know exactly why MIT rejected you, but rest assured that it wasn't your financial situation. I know of several people, all internationals, who got into MIT in the past few years despite asking for 100% financial aid.
You say that you've contacted Matt, Ben, etc. and had no reply. The strange thing is you seem to take their silence as an admission of guilt. Seriously, what sort of answer would satisfy you? MIT's 'need blind' status is well-known. I'm sure that Matt, Ben, etc. would be hesitant to reply to an accusatory letter about transparency, and even if they wrote back to fix your misconceptions, would you believe them? Or would you rather trust your friends and principal who were probably trying to cheer you up?
Posted by: Tung Shen '11 on May 6, 2007
MIT admits 8% of its incoming class as internationals. Probably the applications alone from India would be sufficient to fill that space. I go to school in Taiwan so I know how incredibly competitive it is for internationals to get into MIT. I have friends who are Olympiad winners at an international level and still get rejected from schools the likes of Caltech and MIT. Yet, there are others that get in with 100% aid, even as internationals (there is one from Taiwan this year).
So don't be discouraged, it's by no means a judgment on your financial ability and accomplishments. Good luck on your future endeavours!
-Chris '11 (oasis)
Posted by: Oasis on May 6, 2007
but what really makes me wonder is
after "28 years" what's the point of this:
"I have resigned as MIT's Dean of Admissions because very regrettably....etc"
i mean you've already done what you've done.
that's too late!!
o plz what are you trying to fix!!!!
Marilee Jones, excuse me, you are so corrupt.
Do NOT overrate MIT (i'm not saying this because of the news about Marilee Jones) i'm simply telling an advice for all of you who are gonna apply to MIT the next year and the next years. There are lots of good and perfect schools to consider.
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
uha, yea openness!
you didn't accept Marilee's resignation quietly.. 'cause u simply can't, we would have known. it's not easy to hide the reasons.
plz stop claiming transparency and openness.
well, could you tell me why you rejected me while you accepted another less competitive applicant you transparent folks???!!
c'mon i believe your decision was so UNfair.
I was about to ruin my life because of MIT and i got rejected. this is so sick
transparent!!? cool
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
@ Basant : - Hey hey hey, I am not harboring any nasty misconceptions about MIT just because I wasn't selected. Can't ever think of it. I can't say what you think of me right now, but the arguments I wrote were solely public in nature, I mean this is all about which people say about at my school, at other schools I know and everywhere I have been in Delhi and Mumbai. Iam not saying that I was an awesome applicant, maybe I was an average one, maybe the worst but awesome is what people and my EC believed, I never took it as an issue and wouldn't ever. I know the no. of seats are very less.And I am also a very busy guy too, I too have won many high distinctiopn olympiads and such equivalent competetions, done many things outside class, I took out time to write such a long blog to explain everything to MIT because it concerned me and my fellow country mates.And I didn't realise that I wrote such a long blog untill I submitted it.
@ Tung Shen : - I don''t want a satisfying answer, I was just expecting a response and there is no reason to why I haven't received an answer to my queries. Also, I have never ever developed any misconceptions about MIT.
All you guys out there, it wasnt my opinion it was what my friends and knowns felt about it.And thats the last word.
Watever, this is to all of you at MIT -> One day I will walk in that Infinite Corridor.
Posted by: Utkarsh on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Utkarsh on May 6, 2007
Forget all this and lets move forward and work hard in our own ways to rock MIT one day.
Posted by: utkarsh on May 6, 2007
She lied. She got canned.
Maybe society should fully embrace liars and cheaters?
Yeah, that's the way to go -- close all colleges, because Oasis thinks having a degree is overrated.
Hey Oasis, did you lie on your application?
Makes one wonder... hmmmmm
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
Also, if this is kept up they won't bring the other blogs back.
Posted by: Kari on May 6, 2007
I never said I didn't believe in college degrees - I merely stated that a degree is not a necessity in order to help others and advance change. Moreover, I never said that we should embrace liars - I am making the point that there is no point ridiculing or rubbing salt into the wound.
I agree with Kari, this is not the time to make senseless arguments, so I will also stop from commenting further - best wishes to the admission department.
-Chris '11 (oasis)
Posted by: Oasis '11 on May 6, 2007
And I think another joke is in order.
So there are 4 friends that had been doing particularly well in their calculus class, and the night before their mid-term they decide against their common sense to go partying on the town instead of staying home and studying. Too bad they have too much of a good time and get home about two hours before the exam, oversleeping the exam terribly. So, they all go into the professor and give him the excuse they think up, "Oh, we were at a good friend's, uh, birthday party, and we got a flat tire and got stuck for a while, so we missed the test." So, the prof. nods and says "Ah, okay, I see that you're being sincere, you can take the exam tomorrow morning." So, the four sigh with relief and arrive at the test the next day right on time. They open to the first page and solve a simple diff eq problem that takes about 10 minutes . Then, the first to finish of the four smiles and opens the test to the next problem, and it says:
"Problem 2 (95 of 100 points): Which tire went flat?"
Ok can everyone stop the useless arguing or I'm going to post more jokes, do that on CC, not on blogs, sillies.
Posted by: Jon on May 6, 2007
A CD player comes with instructions on how to play a CD.
1. Take CD out of case.
2. Open player, insert CD, close player.
3. Press 'play'.
Question: A CD is already inside the player. how do you play it?
Normal Person: Press 'play'.
Mathematician: Open player, take out CD, close player, put CD back in case. Take CD out of case. Open player, insert CD, close player. Press 'play'.
...
How many people got that?
Posted by: Tung Shen '11 on May 6, 2007
So I'm sitting in calculus one day, bored out of my mind, so I get out a container of play-doh to play with. I made integrals and faces and shapes and all sorts of stuff. I'm not sure my teacher cared, she didn't tell me to stop, and it passed the time. Fast forward two or three days. Bored again, and I had a whiteboard marker, so I decide to color on my desk. I drew all sorts of stuff, but when it came time to erase it there were some streaks left that I couldn't get rid of. My calculus teacher complained that the janitors had a hard time getting the marker off.
"But Mrs. Lorenz, it wasn't my fault! The desk had some kind of sticky stuff on it, I couldn't see it until the marker was on the desk."
"Could the sticky stuff perhaps been, I don't know, PLAY-DOH!?"
"Oh"
Posted by: Snively on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Kevin '11 on May 6, 2007
I wouldn't have lied in the first place.
While I don't agree with those who blame their rejection on Marilee Jones & her policies (come on, she wasn't the only one reading our applications), I think that what she did was wrong. When you are a public figure with a lot of influence, your mistakes don't stay private. You expect to be judged and even criticized. What she did was wrong, and it is only fair that a person who integrity is questionable be asked to resign. And yes Oasis, people who actually have moral values will criticize her.
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Guyomar on May 6, 2007
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
Thank you for a thoughtful and inspiring post. I know how much Marilee meant to everyone in the admissions office, and I'm sure it will be a challenge to get used to her not being there. I wish you blessings in your time as interim director. Hope you'll keep us updated on how everything is going!
To those who would blame Marilee for their rejections:
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the people who are accepted by MIT are accepted because they have the clearheadedness to see that their potential is so great that it doesn't require MIT at all?
Please, take a breath, and see that MIT is merely a blip on the radar when it comes to everything you are capable of. Don't feel you have to blame your rejection on Marilee. Be glad someone else got the chance to go there, and then go make your own destiny with what you do have!
Posted by: Amy (Hopeful '12) on May 6, 2007
Sure, this is the era of Web 2.0, but does that mean we're just going to throw our respect for privacy out the window? This is MIT's ground - MIT's house, as it were. I don't know what your mothers taught you, but mine taught me that you don't disrespect your neighbor in your neighbor's house.
Please, people. It's becoming increasingly apparent that there are two camps of people here, and there are impassioned arguments on both sides...but let me just tell you, we can yell at each other all we want, it won't make any difference. All of us already know all there really is to know about this.
Maybe all of you who are so anti-Marilee or anti-MIT can't see it, but there are real people involved in this, and real people bleed. There are people bleeding right now at MIT, good people, who have been literally cut apart by a ruthless media and vindictive individuals.
For their sake, if nothing else, please...stop.
Posted by: Paul '11 on May 6, 2007
In her public apology, Ms. Jones said she was "...deeply sorry for this [making false claims on her résumé] and for disappointing so many in the MIT community and beyond" who supported her, believed in her and gave her extraordinary opportunities.
She never mentioned the people most deserving of an apology. Those would be the other candidates for her position who might have had those same opportunities--if Ms. Jones had not won out over them by means of false claims. Ms. Jones left in the dust hard-working people who didn't realize how well deception and lies can pay off--or who listened to their conscience. In a self-serving way, Ms. Jones uses an apology to remind us of how many people she helped, as others might have also done, without lying. This kind of off-target apology gives insight into the thinking of the Marilee Joneses of this world; they don't think about the people whose backs they are stepping on while they reach for success by any means available.
Of the 30-35 students I went to classes with back in high school, 6 went to MIT. I would hate to think of any of them being denied acceptance there--or a job in the future--due to unethical behavior on the part of candidates practicing the "Jones Method." This lady needed help from engineering students in sending her apology in the right direction. She was off 180 degrees. The MIT community paid her well and got good work in return. It's the other candidates who were hurt.
Posted by: Seth Wittner on May 6, 2007
anyway, goes to show that we have a long way to go before we start making an issue over somebody's credentials when her decisions are actually improving the community.
Posted by: intern on May 6, 2007
Perhaps you could try telling me in a few words what the MIT "spirit" truly is. Does the page about "the match" on this site draw a good image of it? My interviewer literally told me that the notion of "the match" is "bullshit". And also, I asked earlier why would this be the primary criteria of selection? The only reason I can think of is that MIT thinks these persons would make better scientists, but there are much better criteria for that such as doing independent reasearch and having strong academics. And in my opinion the whole admissions process should be about selecting those who they consider will turn out to be the best scientists or engineers.
And to the international students who have been admitted:
What does MIT really look for in candidates? What do you think allowed you or your friends to be accepted? I think there are really a lot of persons who would be interested to find that out. Are there any characteristics that make admitted students hands-down more deserving to join MIT or is their acceptance based on an entirely subjective assessment?
Thanks.
Posted by: Vova on May 6, 2007
As an MIT alum, this is very disconcerting. A long running deception, that is only deception once it is caught. Then we hear platitudes of how terrible it was and pledges of renewed trust.
This unfortunately isn't just a problem in this case but systemic in the society where one is only a crook once one is caught. Before that, one is a high flying President, Dean, and Stock Broker et.al.
I actually liked Ms. Marilee Jones and had interacted with her only on email. Her contributions to MIT I am sure are noteworthy.
However, it is a clear message that needs to be taught to our younger generation, a message that has been handed down to us for generations and yet is somehow lost in the high-tech modernity du-jour - ends do not justify the means.
Otherwise, all this emphasis on ethics and morality are mainly an emphasis on 'ubermensch' ethics and 'ubermensch' morality - when such morality only kicks in once one has been found out, defeated, or annhilated.
So instead of reaffirming all this talk of trust etc., better to say nothing and hang ones' head in shame for a while.
And while doing so, rethink what MIT is teaching the kids. Not just in admissions process, but across the board in its undergraduate and graduate education. It is an opportunity to emerge even stronger from this setback. And as always, MIT can set the trend in progressive education as it has done in so many other things, including its fantastic opencourseware program. It is to MIT's credit that they did not hush this up but let it publicly be known - for it would have been a rather simple thing to have done.
Thank you.
Zahir
Posted by: Zahir Ebrahim on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Utkarsh on May 6, 2007
Posted by: Kevin '11 on May 6, 2007
That said, I believe in the match...but I also know that is not all there is to it. There is no way on earth that just 1,000+ kids each year are "matches" for MIT - of course many more would do very well here. That's why admissions is such a hard job, and that's why I say that I beat the odds. To put it a different way: Do I feel I earned my spot in the class of 2011? Certainly I do! But do I believe I deserve to be here? Absolutely not. But someone else thought I would do well here, and, well, I'm really glad for that.
One final comment. Even if you don't respect the process or the match, please respect the people involved. If you have complaints, and some of what you are saying does sound like a valid cause for concern, e-mail the proper individuals directly (i.e. privately). As I said before, I am sick and tired of people attacking MIT and MIT staff in the midst of one of its most vulnerable and painful moments. I am not trying to silence you - there certainly is a time and a place for the sort of comments you keep posting. But that place is not here and that time is not now.
Posted by: Paul '11 on May 6, 2007
I am only wondering if the idea of accepting according to a "match" notion is truly fair and why MIT admissions have been set up this way. Plus, the idea of the above poster that the international admissions are not done according to the "match" is interesting and makes sense to me. How could the officiers quantifiy the well-suitidness of applicants well enough to objectively select 100 persons out of 2500?
The fact that the admission rate is so low and that I was rejected doesn't make it any less interesting to understand this.
Posted by: Vova on May 6, 2007
Here's a small English lesson for you:
persons=>people unless you want to sound pompous.
Posted by: 0 on May 6, 2007
Posted by: De Petagma Saru on May 6, 2007
This goes out to all of you who wonder about "The Match" *cough*Vova*cough*
I’d say that “The Match” page is a great place to start understanding MIT’s culture. I’m not going to pretend that I know exactly what admissions officers look for, nor should anybody else, because that would just make them angry. I will, however, share with you what I noticed and what clued me in on what makes MIT different and special. Hope this helps you Vova.
Check out this page: http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/pulse/incoming_freshman_class_profile/index.shtml
Any other college would just list the numbers. MIT, however, has a “Just for Fun” section, which tells you something about them. Also, I’ve noticed that there are a lot more int’l students complaining than South Dakota students
IAP. If MIT were simply a petri dish for brilliant minds, there would be no need for a month off, during which students could be complete idiots and do whatever stupid fun stuff they want. IAP fosters creativity, not just the disciplined learning that normal classes drill into students.
Hacks. There’s no correlation between winning international Olympiads and putting police cars on domes. MIT loves hacks (although, has anybody else noticed an increasingly edgy campus police this year?), and wants people in their school that love to push the boundaries of legality in order to impress others. Nobody likes a kid that spends all his time studying!
MIT Museum. Ever seen a collection of amazingly cool things that have very little practical value at all? Welcome to the MIT museum, the coolest place ever! Further proof that MIT isn’t just sheer genius, but is willing to blend art with engineering for nothing more than garnering a smile from a passerby. I’m a fan of the anti-gravity chair and the dancing garden hose.
In talking to recent admits to MIT, I’ve found that very few (probably none) are completely 1-dimensional, do only math, or are strictly contest participants. MIT doesn’t want pure genius, that’s boring! It needs the catalyst of other experiences and activities to spur on genius to greater heights where fantastic ideas lie, and that’s where match comes into play. People say that admitting based on a holistic match is dumb or irresponsible, but MIT can do whatever it wants, it’s a private institution, and who would know better what the institute needs than the institute itself? If you do different activities, are dedicated, and have exciting new ideas (on top of killer SAT scores and grades of course), MIT may take a second look at you. If not, and you are simply good at math, MIT doesn’t need you because they can by a textbook 10 times smarter than you! It’s the skills, personality, and willingness to explore that, in my opinion, makes MIT the greatest college on the planet, but also frustrates applicants who worry too much about meeting a set criteria to get in. Admissions to MIT are not cut and dry, because MIT is not cut and dry. The sooner you understand that nobody is a sure thing and factors other than “I’m good at math” competitions matter, the sooner you’ll develop an understanding of “The Match.”
Posted by: Snively on May 7, 2007
"More specifically, what they are doing right now"
nothing they are doing nothing, i know a few of mit graduates that are just nothing now. why? because i don't know!!
anyways i'm an international student, Intel ISEF finalist amazing scores, OUTSTANDING achievements in the field i'm interested in, and i got rejected, and i know that MIT (oops) accepted another international student that has never represented her country in any international event.
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
=======================
I have the theory of "calculus with infinite varibles", "plasma propulsion" and during my tenure in High School, three professors from Dept of Physics, Resigned.
My EC, sweated and fretted like all hell broke loose, when the interview finished (You can check it Ben.)
=============
Anyway I had not submitted my project reports, since they are very precious, to me, at least.
Currently in University of Aerospace Technology, Moscow. What d ya say... comrade?
Posted by: Vishaque on May 7, 2007
I know that MIT believes that I can contribute to the institute in some meaningful way.
Its not always about test scores guys.
Posted by: CambridgeBoy on May 7, 2007
I'm going to the university of Manchester, UK. and you know what, it's good thing you didn't submit your project reports.
we're gonna rock because MIT didn't accept us. haha
but I'm still curious that's all.
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
So there are 4 friends that had been doing particularly well in their calculus class, and the night before their mid-term they decide against their common sense to go partying on the town instead of staying home and studying. Too bad they have too much of a good time and get home about two hours before the exam, oversleeping the exam terribly. So, they all go into the professor and give him the excuse they think up, "Oh, we were at a good friend's, uh, birthday party, and we got a flat tire and got stuck for a while, so we missed the test." So, the prof. nods and says "Ah, okay, I see that you're being sincere, you can take the exam tomorrow morning." So, the four sigh with relief and arrive at the test the next day right on time. They open to the first page and solve a simple diff eq problem that takes about 10 minutes . Then, the first to finish of the four smiles and opens the test to the next problem, and it says:
'Problem 2 (95 of 100 points): Which tire went flat?'"
May 6, 2007 12:07 PM
--------------------
Has anyone CONSIDERED that THIS is why Jones had to give up her position at MIT? Sure, she did a good job, but she lied about a very important matter. Letting her continue at MIT would be like letting the four students take the same kind of test as their classmates.
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
Posted by: Vihang on May 7, 2007
All three are asked the same question: "What is one third plus two thirds?"
The pure mathematician: "It's one."
The applied mathematician takes out his pocket calculator, punches in the numbers, and replies: "It's 0.999999999."
The statistician: "What do you want it to be?"
Posted by: Alekhine on May 7, 2007
This woman even took advantage of her title at MIT Admission Office to co-author a book about admission and advertised it on the web site at MIT. It is unthical for this woman to do that. Many parents bough her book because of her title. Now we found out that we were being cheated by this liar. I don't know why MIT would allow this woman to advertise her book on the MIT web site. "
You're the joke. The book doesn't depend on the credentials Marilee had... Nobody buys books because the author had a college degree ......
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
ok, i think it's about time i join the discussion :D if any of you _really_ wanted to go to mit you could've waited for another year and try again or apply for transfer now if you decided to go elsewhere in the meantime. i'm sure that they didn't reject anyone without a good reason, but mistakes do happen. if you decide to wait for antoher year it would show them that you really wanna go there
Posted by: Sh1fty on May 7, 2007
For those of you who are posting nasty comments because you got rejected: GROW UP
As we would say in Africa, "Life is hard". Get over it, move on.
For those of you who have genuine inquiries about the admissions process: there are better times and much better ways to get answers.
RESPECT the people in this admissions office who put so much effort and emotion in to their jobs. Respect is part of what makes MIT "the dream school" for so many.
Posted by: Chessy on May 7, 2007
I love humor.
Posted by: Meghana on May 7, 2007
I had to remove some posts for various reasons (expletives, calling out other applicants by name, insulting other posters past our comfort level, posting false information, etc.)
Please keep it civil here. If you want to attack other people, there are plenty of sites that will let you do that.
To those of you posting valuable comments in this thread, thanks so much.
-B
Posted by: Ben on May 7, 2007
I love you all as much as i believe that my rejection was unfair. =) huh
the moments we spent here, at the facebook group, at the MIT chatroom, were so unforgettable.
this is absolutely gonna be my very last post
-Amjad
I posted these:
Posted by: Anonymous on May 6, 2007 09:57 AM
Posted by: Anonymous on May 6, 2007 10:13 AM
Posted by: Anonymous on May 7, 2007 01:16 AM
LOVE
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
I've removed your post about the former crew coach's analysis of the admissions process because I don't want it to be picked up and quoted elsewhere on the web. Not sure how you came upon that bad information, but that's not at all how the process happens here.
Posted by: Ben on May 7, 2007
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V127/N23/marileeupdate.html
In spite of this, she decided to make up an academic career. It has been stated repeatedly that, if she had not claimed to have a college degree, she never would have been able to become dean of admissions. Now everyone will claim that it was necessary for her to "have" SEVERAL degrees to become dean of admissions. But to tell the truth about her acamadeic record? Who cares about that?
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
MIT's metric for selection is "the fit". Since it is a measure that can't be quantified, there will always be some cases where some good candidates may have been overlooked. It is just that their application didn't come through as effectively as it should have been.
From MIT's point of view, the metirc is a success as long as the quality of the undergraduates graduating from MIT does not decline. There is no indication that the qulaity has declined. SO, the metric for admission is a success.
Posted by: Bharathi on May 7, 2007
Let me be honest, it did hurt when I came to know that I was rejected by a person who had herself did something so wrong, but then, the moment I thought what Marilee had lost, all my hurt felt illogical. No matter what we say or might think, we all know that Marilee was one person who would've stood up for applicants based on her heart; and we all need that. In a place as competitive as MIT, we desperately need people like her.
Moreover, it is a fact that Marilee lied about her credentials not out of greed, but only because she didn't want to lose MIT, a place that she deeply loved and cared for. It all still makes me think that she could've been forgiven - I'm not saying that all this should've been done behind the scenes, but publicly.
Still I know that doing that must've been rather unfeasible. But I can't help thinking.
Anyways, its sad to see people making most of this time as an opportunity to get back at MIT just because they were rejected. Hey, I was rejected only a few weeks back, but I think an institutes's decision is always correct. After all, the rejection has inspired me to work harder and improve upon myself.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 7, 2007
Let me be honest, it did hurt when I came to know that I was rejected by a person who had herself did something so wrong, but then, the moment I thought what Marilee had lost, all my hurt felt illogical. No matter what we say or might think, we all know that Marilee was one person who would've stood up for applicants based on her heart; and we all need that. In a place as competitive as MIT, we desperately need people like her.
Moreover, it is a fact that Marilee lied about her credentials not out of greed, but only because she didn't want to lose MIT, a place that she deeply loved and cared for. It all still makes me think that she could've been forgiven - I'm not saying that all this should've been done behind the scenes, but publicly.
Still I know that doing that must've been rather unfeasible. But I can't help thinking.
Anyways, its sad to see people making most of this time as an opportunity to get back at MIT just because they were rejected. Hey, I was rejected only a few weeks back, but I think an institutes's decision is always correct. After all, the rejection has inspired me to work harder and improve upon myself.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 7, 2007
Oh and hey, did anyone read the current issue of TIME Magazine's 'Commentary' article by Joe Klein. It's about Marilee and it has a very interesting call to action at the end. I highly recommend checking it out.
Posted by: Kevin '11 on May 7, 2007
Most of those who apply to MIT are very well qualified academically. Most people have the scores, the GPAs - and many have the competitions. What do you have to show as a human being?
Posted by: Melissa '11 on May 7, 2007
Alt F4 your mouth!
Does anybody know if this is on a t-shirt yet, because it needs to be.
Posted by: Snively on May 7, 2007
Oh, you might not know, but this info has been posted on CC.
Hey Kevin... it was Michael Kinsley's commentary, not Joe Klein's, and I canceled my subscription because TIME and Kinsley advocate against earning a college degree and for lying.
We're a full-pay tuition family and will be paying MIT a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS (SB degree), and for that kind of money, we expect and demand honesty across all spectrums of MIT, from the athletic department to the admissions department.
By the way, where are Marilee's blogs?
This is all very sickening so I will leave these censored blogs.
Best of luck to all
Posted by: 0 on May 7, 2007
Some people just need to watch the ending of "Life of Brian" a bit more, in my humble opinion.
Posted by: Snively on May 7, 2007
Snively, I was hoping that you would tell me something I don't know about what's the match, but you only confirmed the impression I had from reading the site. Personally, I agree 100% with these values and I hope I can be exactly like that. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it is fair to admit people according to such criteria. When I wrote my posts, I wanted to know some good reason why it is done this way, other than "I would rather like to be with multi-sided people". And I was wondering this strictly out of curiosity, as I am already rejected and our discussion will not change anything.
Anyway, I'm too tired right now to start writing in detail my opinion on this, and I'm not sure anyone here wants to talk about it.
But still thanks for correcting my mistakes; English is not my first language. And as you can see, I don't use "persons" any more
Posted by: Vova on May 7, 2007
Posted by: Kevin '11 on May 8, 2007
Alt F4 your mouth!
Does anybody know if this is on a t-shirt yet, because it needs to be.
Posted by: Snively on May 7, 2007 10:37 PM
------------------------------------------
I bet that you just caused a bunch of people to close the window with this page!
Posted by: 0 on May 8, 2007
You said that what I said about Mr. Meattle was wrong. I will now have to tell you about the whole interview process as happened with me to clarify your doubts.
First of all, I asked MIT admissions both on the phone and e-mail whether any technical matter which I am not involved in would be discussed during the interview. Both times, the answer was NO. I was called to Mr. Meattle's place before the interview for a chat. It was then that he told me that I needed to decide what project I would work on at MIT along with the technical part. How do you say that Mr. Meattle is a helpful man when he told me to decide on the exact project of my life(with the knowledge that a Grade 12 student has)along with its Hows and whats? I was scolded badly just because I didnt get my essay written by a professional essay writer. This was the reason HE said he was scolding me, I haven't made it up. This was before the interview. Now MIT said the interview was going to be about me and what I wanted to do at MIT and in life. The interview, though was more of a question-answer round with subjects from Physical Chemistry to Nanotechnologgy to Calculus even though I had told him that my only interest was Electronic Engineering. Now, if it were kept to a minimum level,it would have been ok.But we talked about MY interests for 10 minutes and the other topics for 25 minutes. He never asked me the technical part of Electronics but wanted the entire details of Chemical Kinetics. If he was of such a helpful nature, why did he go into topics he knew I didnt have an interest in? You may argue that I am complaining because I was not admitted. That is not the case, else I would have complained as soon as I learnt about my rejection. But I neede to clarify the interview process because I didn't want to be in same trouble next year when I apply for Transfer Admissions. I didnt complain straight after my interview because I didn't want to anger my EC, thus causing a negative impact on my application. If you still feel to clarify anything, please ask me about it.
Posted by: Ishan on May 8, 2007
Posted by: Ben on May 8, 2007
Posted by: Vishaque on May 8, 2007
Posted by: Vishaque on May 8, 2007
Posted by: Tung Shen '11 on May 8, 2007
Posted by: Snively on May 9, 2007
c.1887, from Ger. dyslex, from Gk. dys- "bad, abnormal, difficult" (see dys-) + lexis "word," from legein "speak" (see lecture). Dyslexic is first recorded 1961.
==================================================
RENOUNCED
==================================================
Main Entry: re·nounce
Pronunciation: ri-'nauns
Function: verb
Inflected Forms: re·nounced; re·nounc·ing
transitive verb 1 : to announce one's abandonment or giving up of a right to or interest in : DISCLAIM 1
2 : to refuse to follow, obey, or recognize any further intransitive verb : to make a renunciation
Posted by: Vishaque on May 9, 2007
I am intentionally not giving any information that could be used to identify me because I am an educational counsellor. I cannot speak for other ECs but I will share a few thoughts of what things really inspire me when I talk to students.
I look for genuine passion about something. I actually dont care what. I ask kids to tell me what is important to them, and if they get all worked up about whatever it is, something in me goes "aha.".
I don't ask them about academics because I don't care- the admissions office can evaluate their credentials. I only see a few students every year so I am not well-placed to see if a student is average, above average, whatever.
I try, in the interview, to garner whether the student is "a match" for the MIT culture that I experienced when I was there, and that I see in alums of all ages. It's hard to define but to me, passion and interest in something (doesn't matter what) are a very big part of it. I guess I must be doing OK because some of the students I recommend highly do get in (but never enough it seems to me).
I wonder sometimes when I am 40 years graduated, if I will have to stop being an EC because I will be so out of phase with MIT culture that I won't be a good evaluator of it.
I'm very sorry to hear about the student who got grilled in the interview and scolded. That's disgraceful and to me goes against the entire ethos of how the MIT interviews should be. I try very hard to put the student at ease and always email beforehand to tell them that they won't need to wear a suit, bring a resume or solve problems.
It's not a perfect process but I do honestly try to picture the individual at MIT and think about how they fit in. I used to study AI when I was at MIT and that was all about fitting data to sets of rules. I came out of those classes thinking that sometimes it may not be possible to codify the rules, and you therefore need human input. I think this may be one of those occasions.
But if anyone has a "formula" for "the match", I'd be interested in seeing it.
Posted by: Anonymous on May 9, 2007
A person was applying to grad school, for a second graduate degree, after a gap of six years. At the end of a 20 minute interview, the person was asked about some function in mathematics. While the person remembered the name, had no clue about the answer. So after a few thoughtful moments, said "Sorry, though I know this is a special function in mathematics like .... I don't remember the answer to this specific question now." The interviewer asked, "then how do you expect to succeed here?". The person said, "If you admit me, I can show you that I can succeed." The committee did admit the person who eventually graduated with an almost perfect GPA.
I wouldn't say that the answer got that person in. Probably that confident answer was viewed positively by the committee in the light of all other credentials and qualities. If there had been a "formula" that weighed that question heavily, the reply would have been scored as a "No" with a negative outcome. Collective human judgement seems to have helped in this case. I bet no one reading this can tell what was the exact impact of the answer, unless the reader is one of those interviewers.
Posted by: MITMom-2010 on May 9, 2007
First off, I was rejected, but I am not angry or anything at MIT (no hard feelings - it's all good :D)
But, when I was applying I think I read somewhere that applications are read by the committee, and then only sent to Marilee for approval, or something like that ..
Anyways, to all the angry rejectees, what's the point of being angry with Marilee, when she didn't make the decision (if my memory's right?)
Now I'm not saying to get mad with Ben or Matt or the admissions committee, because that wouldn't be a good thing either - sometimes things happen beyond comprehension; you can't really assign blame to anyone, because no one is really at fault for anything.
I wouldn't be the first one to say that an admissions department is "wrong" or "mistaken" (I think they know what they're doing), nor do I want to place all the fault and blame on myself (self-deprecation, I think, would only make someone feel worse after rejection) -- I actually do believe in the whole "match" idea ... and in my case, that may have been it .. but who am I to diagnose it? It's one of those thing I'll never know, and that's okay --
I don't know, I would love to attend MIT hopefully for grad school or something - but it's not like that will be the sole purpose of my college experience. I've learned through this that if I stay focused and headstrong in one direction only, I would miss out on some other things..
And once again, these things are beyond comprehension. I actually LOVE the school I'm going to, and couldn't be more thrilled (even if it was MIT). Ironically, when I visited, I felt more at home there than how I felt at MIT's campus. Maybe I'm just not ready for MIT at this stage in my life, who knows? I think that for now, I'm meant to go to Mount Holyoke, and that's that. As for the possibility of MIT for grad school, I'll only be concerned when I'm a senior applying.
And life goes on.
I know this is long-winded, so if I lost readers somewhere, here's the point: Rejectees, get over it! It's no use being angry, because where is that going to get you? Life goes on!!!
Congrats to the MIT '11s, and much thanks to the MIT admissions committee, for all the hard work you guys do - I'm sure you'll all pull through this spectacularly. :D
Posted by: Theresa (MHC '11) on May 9, 2007
Posted by: Anonymous on May 10, 2007
Posted by: Anonymous on May 10, 2007
Rant if you want, but you just sound silly phrasing it the way you do.
Anyway, freedom of speech just means you don't get locked up for saying what you want. It doesn't mean that anyone is obliged to publicise what you say if it's not productive to the situation. And attacking other people isn't productive here.
Posted by: Alum '99 on May 10, 2007
my friend: That just shows you that you don't really have to be smart to be smart.
Posted by: 0 on May 10, 2007
Its all bullshit! Such discrepancies have going on for the past many years. They are all liars, they have secret internal admission policies which are never made public...Shame on you MIT !
This only shows how troubled you are, now that you have been rejected. It shows that you really wanted to get into MIT, but are now attacking it with malice just to get back at the institute.
And given that you really wanted to make it to MIT, it shows that deep inside, you know that MIT is superb. Controversies like these never matter, as they can happen with any institute in the world. But now that you've been rejected, MIT has suddenly become the worst thing in the world.
At least be human and respect others' feelings. Grow up.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 11, 2007
Your statements about openness and equal opportunity have as much behind them as the quote above. They are made by people who keep saying she (or anyone else) made the process more "compassionate." Those that set a 10% quota on foreigners, so that being born on a "wrong" patch of soil diminishes one's chances by orders of magnitude, no matter the background. Those saying that an admissions director who lied about all her education beyond high school could in no possible way compromise the admissions process. All of this is stated matter-of-factly, with a straight face - no flinching, shame, or remorse.
Subjective admission decisions made by the likes of Marilee Jones should not affect the course of your future, let alone ruin it. Neither she nor anyone else at that office are qualified for that. The good ting is that in actuality they don't - the better state schools (including mine) award educational and research opportunities similar to those at MIT for a quarter of the price. One just needs to be proactive about fiding them, and be able to ignore anything and anyone that stands in the way. And people in the admissions office shouldn't get the "respect" they do not (in regards to this instance) deserve - after all, the facts are shameful and should be exposed as such.
Posted by: doesnt_matter on May 11, 2007
Your statements about openness and equal opportunity have as much behind them as the quote above. They are made by people who keep saying she (or anyone else) made the process more "compassionate." Those that set a 10% quota on foreigners, so that being born on a "wrong" patch of soil diminishes one's chances by orders of magnitude, no matter the background. Those saying that an admissions director who lied about all her education beyond high school could in no possible way compromise the admissions process. All of this is stated matter-of-factly, with a straight face - no flinching, shame, or remorse.
Subjective admission decisions made by the likes of Marilee Jones should not affect the course of your future, let alone ruin it. Neither she nor anyone else at that office are qualified for that. The good ting is that in actuality they don't - the better state schools (including mine) award educational and research opportunities similar to those at MIT for a quarter of the price. One just needs to be proactive about fiding them, and be able to ignore anything and anyone that stands in the way. And people in the admissions office shouldn't get the "respect" they do not (in regards to this instance) deserve - after all, the facts are shameful and should be exposed as such.
Posted by: doesnt_matter on May 11, 2007
Posted by: doesnt_matter on May 11, 2007
And what is wrong with having a quota on foreigners? I am a foreign student who went to MIT for undergrad. I fully understand that much of MIT funding is from within the US. MIT is a US university. I do not think the US should be obliged to educate everybody who wants to study in it, any more than my country should be.
And yes, not going to MIT is not going to ruin anyone's life. I am fortunate to have got in and been able to attend. However I'm sure I would have got a good education at any of the other places I got into.
Posted by: y2k grad on May 11, 2007
MIT's funding comes from a variety of sources, many of them foreign. I would think that "equal opportunity" and "need-blind" policies imply that everyone has the same chance to attend, regardless of whether one's government qualifies as a funding source for the Institute. Not so - they choose to practice a form of discrimination because the current society lets them get away with it, and it will take a while till it is eradicated the same way racism (and racist policies) were in the 60s. I'll do my best to speed things up.
I realize that as a foreigner MIT reject, I can't help but focus on my own problems. I do believe, however, that my picture of the situation is an objective one.
Posted by: 0 on May 11, 2007
Posted by: Anonymous on May 11, 2007
She should not have been allowed to continue in her position, and she was not allowed to do so. However, that doesn't mean that her ideas were invalid. I see no problem with, *within a pool of qualified applicants*, exercising subjective criteria. There are just so many qualified applicants that you have to pick a subset in some way.
The issue that many will take with my above statement is that people define "qualified" differently. I've read about people who didn't get in who were international olympiad medal winners. I don't know why winning an international olympiad medal is seen as automatic qualification for admission. I went to high school with a few, and some of them just weren't the best matches for MIT. Some didn't even apply because they didn't feel like it was a good fit for them. So if the narrow criteria "won international olympiad medal" were used, they wouldn't provide the best match because the existence of olympiad medal winners who feel they don't fit in at MIT is the counterexample right there.
I'm sorry, but it's just laughable to say that a quota on foreign students is discrimination. The US and its citizens are not obliged to subsidise the entire world's students regardless of how great the non-US students are. US universities do the right thing by admitting a certain percentage of qualified internationals. I have been trying to find some online sources that describe the proportion of US / non-US funding but I cannot, so I have to go by what I remember from when I was there. I remember that they got a lot of finding from the department of defense and other such US organisations. I remember this because I saw a lot of UROPs offered that said, US citizenship required.
Unfortunately, "foreigner MIT reject" (your own words), your picture of the situation is not objective and your believing that it is doesn't make it so.
If you had a billion $ to give MIT with the stipulation that they then remove the quota on internationals, that might just swing the balance enough.
Posted by: y2k grad on May 11, 2007
"Hey, your HS GPA is 3.12 and your SAT is around the 50th percentile, but you've got a radiating smile and a poignant unverified story in that impeccably written essay. We've got affirmative action quotas (unstated) to fulfill and you're a female non-asian minority so ok, show us what you can do."
Admissions is a zero-sum game - there'd be nothing wrong with accepting this applicant except for the fact that she has taken the place of someone who had perfect SAT, GPA, won a medal, did every-friggin-thing he'd be expected to do to get in. The power granted to the admissions officers is limitless - anyone can be accepted or rejected without justification. This results in correspondingly limitless potential for abuse, and given the director's level of integrity, the office and its decisions should be scrutinized more then they currently have been.
As far as foreigners go, discrimination is there by definition - they don't deny discriminating against foreigners in favor of locals. Some allege that this form of discrimination is "good" as it keeps potential enemy combatants from getting their Urban Planning degrees. I disagree and think that everyone should have an equal chance at a good education - I believe that if you are born in Rwanda you should have as much of a chance to go to a private American college as someone in born in Boston has. UROPs with DoD may be out of reach because DoD can set its own criteria (as other sponsors, including foreign ones, can), but admissions policies at a private (i.e. not subsidized by taxpayers)institute should be separate and not be dictated by the likes of those people. Many institutions (nearly all in the UK) have understood this, which makes them more progressive then MIT.
Posted by: doesnt_matter on May 12, 2007
As someone said above, if you think that it is unfair, then donate a substantial sum of money to MIT with the stipulation. Just complaining won´t do anything.
Posted by: Becca on May 12, 2007
Posted by: 0 on May 12, 2007
In Pakistan, the ALL internatls, in recent different years, that got accepted to MIT were those who were going to IMO. Now, how do you explain that Ben? How do you explain that? I am a straight A student but I didnt get the chance of even trying for IMO and neither did my friend who is a heck of a mathematician. Just got rejected.
Then why I ask, do you tell people, that everyone of the applicants is given a fair chance and is the application is considered in context?
I firmly believe that MIT assumes that in one country every student gets equal opportunity, but I want you people to reconsider that.
I do not want my post to be removed again so I'll not be that honest and just tell the future international applicants that unless they have something that all of the applicants from their country COULD NOT HAVE HAD, they must not bother to apply unless they are stupid enough to believe in luck.
I must emphasise though Ben that although MIT does try to make the admission process transparent, what they keep in the dark is real thing - facts about those who got accepted. Unless they r released in a way that maintains the applicants privacy, no matter what you have to tell the applicants, the mythical nature of application process will remain a myth and MIT's petty tries to "demystify the application process" is very much in vain.
Posted by: who reads this part? on May 12, 2007
Their tries aren't in vain; I was rejected too, but am I questioning their admissions system? No, because I understood it when I applied, and I knew the odds of admittance were tough. It felt nice, knowing their process of selection, and it gave me a sense of security, knowing that my application would have a thorough reading (unlike the other schools I applied to, whose admissions sections I could only speculate about).
If you didn't have questions when you applied, how could you have questions now, and say objectively that their attempts at transparency are in vain? What I mean is, having no questions beforehand implies that their transparency worked beforehand - that you clearly understood the admissions process.
Posted by: Theresa MHC '11 on May 12, 2007
Why can't you people realize the same, and move on? Ranting and complaining about an institute is only a waste of time. Improving upon oneself and proving that one can get in is more important.
Stop being a coward and don't complain. Don't take the easy way out.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 13, 2007
How biased can people be about themselves? Is it so hard to admit that you're not good enough? Confidence is ok, but I'd call this as overconfidence, nothing else. And let me tell you, people who fail to see where they themselves have gone wrong are the biggest losers in the world. Their superiority complex keeps them from any form of improvement.
This is really sad indeed.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 13, 2007
Har Shaakh Pe Ulloo Baita hai; Anjame Gulistan Kya Hoga??
Posted by: Vaivaswat Manu on May 13, 2007
On every branch, there is an owl sitting, what would be the fate of that garden, O Lord?
Posted by: Vaivswat Manu on May 13, 2007
I fully agree with the fact that its the most transparent in US but not good enough to be called transparent at all.
Where are you from by the way?
Mr. Ashesh no one is saying that had I been given a fair chance, I wud have bin accepted. I just want everyone of the applicants to know why they were accpeted or rejected.
Posted by: Who reads this part? on May 13, 2007
And with 13000 applicants or whatever it just is not physically possible to give everybody who didn't get in a personal letter saying why.
I can't remember who it was who was saying that only IMO people got in. Has it occurred to you that perhaps these people got in for other reasons than the IMO? Has it occurred to you that perhaps they have a heck of a lot of other things about their application that make it a strong one and IMO just happens to be one of them? Correlation does not equal causation.
Posted by: y2k grad on May 13, 2007
To know why they were accepted or rejected? So, you intend to say that there was some other reason behind an applicant's denial?
See, this kind of behavior only shows that there are some people who're so biased that they can believe that the entire world is wrong, but not them. And to put things rather bluntly, it doesn't get much better than institutes like MIT, etc. So, is it fair to think that the best institutes in the world are 'wrong' but not the denied applicants? Isn't it better to think that there's scope for improvement as far as the applicant is concerned?
I think it's better if people admitted that there actually are areas in which they need to improve, once they get the denial letter. Thinking that the institute was wrong but not them, is plain hypocrisy. And there's no way hypocrisy can be of any good.
And its also clear that some people were waiting for a chance like this to get back at MIT, an institute that had offended their egos by rejecting them. Little do they realize that by applying to an institute, one silently undertakes that he/she considers the institute worthy of applying to.
Its strange to see people changing their opinions so fast.
Posted by: Ashesh on May 13, 2007
I love humor.
Posted by: Meghana on May 7, 2007 10:14 AM
Me Too
Posted by: Bilim Teknik on May 13, 2007
http://piercing-pagoda.blogspot.com/ >mike piercing pagoda*
In leaving even the most unpleasant people
Posted by: rbphpoq on May 13, 2007
Posted by: nhzvitpey xejvmnor on May 14, 2007
Posted by: fjmywun npucfv on May 14, 2007
Posted by: A Mom on May 16, 2007
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